Gun Registaion ?

[heavygunner]

I have a question about gun registration, when you buy a gun or pistol and all the info is written down and on file with your local sheriff along with NICS. Isn't this kinda like gun registration? They know who has what and where they live. If this new AWB are they going to just trust the people with guns and riffles just to come on in? Or are they going to make laws that if you don't register your AR you will be convicted with a felony and loose all gun rights? They already know who has what and when and were they bought it. I sure hope they don't use executive power to make a bunch of B.S laws! Think its time to make a bunker for long term storage for the like.

[MrVvrroomm]

when you buy a gun or pistol and all the info is written down and on file with your local sheriff along with NICS. Isn't this kinda like gun registration?

Law enforcement is not supplied this information when you purchase a firearm.

[jdege]

Yep. It is like gun registration.

Except that:

1. The data is stored on paper at individual gun shows, scattered all over the country
2. It records only initial purchase, and doesn't track private sales

They can, with some effort, track an individual serial number from manufacturer to distributor to dealer, and determine who the original purchaser was.

They cannot determine what firearms any particular individual owns.

Which is why it is so essential that the "gun show loophole" not be closed.

[heavygunner]

I thought or at least what I was told that your local Sheriff is notified about your purchase since he is the one that issued the permit to purchase or carry. Was told they have to destroy all information after a year. I don't know i think they know what everyone has, all i know there is a whole lot of AR'S out there and hope the people that bought them know how to use them.

[Chunkychuck]

There are more learrned persons on here who can probably explain this better than I but here we go. The only guns that you have that can be identified as you owning them are guns you have bought from or transferred by an FFL. The FFL has to keep a record of the gun and to whom it has been sold or transferred. There are ways the government can look at those records, but as I understand it, they cannot make copies or take the record book from the store. When an FFL goes out of business the book has to been given to ATF so ultimately it could end up in the government's hands. But that is as far as the record goes, the first sale or the transfer they do. If you have bought guns privately from an individual there are no records or registration that exist, unless the individual from whom you bought the gun keeps some kind of record of the transaction. That is why gun control advocates are pushing so hard to eliminate private sales. That is how I understand things.

[minnhawk]

Senator Feinstein's proposed bill calls specifically for registered all "assault weapons" with the government, registration fees, tracking, and so forth. Short walk if the Feds want to create a list of guns to confiscate......

[heavygunner]

Well that helps out a little, i have a felling things are going to get really confusing soon. Man way to many laws and rules to go buy, because of a few crazies. Thanks for making it a little clearer for me

[xd ED]

I'll agree, except to point out that in the case of a FFL transfer of a used firearm , locating that weapon by tracing the serial number would be nearly impossible. New guns are traced back to mfg via serial number, and then forward through the chain of custody to the first customer/ end user.

[jdege]

I thought or at least what I was told that your local Sheriff is notified about your purchase since he is the one that issued the permit to purchase or carry.

The sheriff knows you have a permit. He has no way of knowing how many firearms you might have purchased with it.

[heavygunner]

I thought if someone purchases more than one handgun in a seven-day period, gun shop owners are required to notify local police agencies. Don't know if this a law. I don't have that problem anyway not enough money LoL

[XDM45]

I'll agree, except to point out that in the case of a FFL transfer of a used firearm , locating that weapon by tracing the serial number would be nearly impossible. New guns are traced back to mfg via serial number, and then forward through the chain of custody to the first customer/ end user.

Sounds like a chain-of-custody type of situation. I guess the best thing to do is to keep records of the guns you do sell. What if down the road the thing becomes a murder weapon after being sold a few times or stolen from a future owner? In my case, I purchased both guns new, so I'm the first one they'd come looking at, correct?

[t140]

Sounds like a chain-of-custody type of situation. I guess the best thing to do is to keep records of the guns you do sell. What if down the road the thing becomes a murder weapon after being sold a few times or stolen from a future owner? In my case, I purchased both guns new, so I'm the first one they'd come looking at, correct?

You are not held accountable for what someone else does with a firearm. It only falls on you if you knew they were a felon or had intent to do something wrong with it.

If someone does something stupid and the serial is traced back to you, all you have to do is say you sold it. If you remember the guy's name, fine. If not, fine. If you have a bill of sale, fine. If not, fine.

[xd ED]

I believe the time frame of 1 year is significant to the above

[LastManArms]

I thought if someone purchases more than one handgun in a seven-day period, gun shop owners are required to notify local police agencies. Don't know if this a law. I don't have that problem anyway not enough money LoL

Law and ATF regulation: 478.126a
ATF Form: 3310.4 http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-3310-4.pdf

From form regarding retention and destruction by Cleo:

Instructions to CLEOs receiving Copy 2 of this form: 18 U.S.C. 923(g)(3)(B) provides in part that you certify in writing every six months that no disclosures have been made and that the multiple sales forms on non-prohibited persons have been destroyed by the CLEO as required by law. The following statement can be used for this purpose: "I hereby certify on behalf of (your specific agency name) that for the period of six months (give specific dates) there have been no disclosures of Multiple Sales Forms contrary to the provisions of the Brady Handgun Violence Protection Act, and that all forms and any record of the contents thereof have been destroyed as provided by the law." This statement is to be dated and on your agency letterhead, signed by the proper official and forwarded by the CLEO to: U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, National Tracing Center, P.O. Box 0279, Kearneysville, WV 25430-0279.

[LastManArms]

Who audits the CLEOs records to make sure this stuff is secured and destroyed per the regulations?

Also, do all dealers secure their 4473s in general? I plan to secure those like money or guns are since they have to be retained for 20 years and have personal data on them. I'm even considering a separate safe for just records to ensure they are not compromised.