Need scope advice

[samginko]

I may be doing the prairie dogs this year. I need some advice on what type of scopes to keep an eye on. I enjoy using BDC retical, so that would be my first spec to look for. I am not a rifle guy, and rarely shoot past 200yds. Currently I use leupold, sightron, and pride fowler scopes. Highest magnification is pfi at fixed 10X.

Also, BDC is not etched in stone.

[crbutler]

From my point of view from what you said here, I would not necessarily do "anything" I am assuming you have some sort of reasonably accurate centerfire rifle that you are using. Small bore rifles only- anything over .25 is going to beat you up too much for you to want to shoot it much, not to mention shell costs. Anything much over 1.5 MOA accuracy is going to be frustrating as far as the gun is concerned. Your target will be maybe 6-8" tall and 2-3" wide. That means a 1 MOA gun is getting iffy after 300 yards. If you limit yourself to 2-300 yards with a 10X, you will at least be able to decide if this is fun for you without blowing through several hundred (to several thousand) bucks. As as side effect, at that range you won't need to worry about drops either.

If this is a one time thing and you are not too likely to repeat it, buying new is a bit of a quandary. Nothing will hold resale real well. If you just don't shoot distance because you don't have the gear, getting a good scope may let you start to shoot further.

I like a higher magnification scope for prairie dogs, but with a higher magnification, you need better glass to see anything and a good scope internally to keep it from working loose in a shoot.

I would tend to stay away from Burris, BSA, etc. They are more likely to not be repeatable and fail on you.

Nikon is more or less where I would start. For a dedicated varmint rig, I would not use a max magnification of less than 14X (but there are a number of big game scopes that will do that.) Anything with much over 25X will be excessive unless you want to put in the time to go past 800 yards with it.

Next up is Leupold. Better glass and better repeatability.

Then you start getting in to the more exotic stuff like Schmidt and Bender, Kahles, and Swarovski.

If you really want a ranging type reticle scope, Nightforce is really good also.

Make sure it has good and properly mounted rings.

Poor rings and cheap scopes account for a lot of poor accuracy issues in decent rifles.

As for reticle, with prairie dogs, the ranging reticles are not too useful. Mil dot or other type scopes you do multiplication to get a range assuming you know the size of your target. With prairie dogs, you are better off buying a cheap laser rangefinder and knowing your hold overs or clicks, range the mound and dial them in. The bullet drop compensation scopes are only good for the exact round it was designed around- say in .223 a 55 grain bullet of known ballistic coefficient at a known velocity. Get too far afield and the BDC is junk. Also, at extended ranges they are hard to work with at odd ranges (say you have a mark for 600 and 500, but the target is at 575?) Mil dot or a target turret scope is better for this application than a BDC. Fine crosshairs are better for dogs than the thick big game ones. Illuminated reticles look neat, but are really meaningless for daytime shooting.

For dogs, a big objective lens is not useful- that is for low light and if you plan on shooting a lot of coyotes, or deer hunting in beanfields, a good purchase, but a lot of money for no real utility for a range and dog gun.

Get some good sand bags and a good bipod or a table/bench type rest for the rifle.

You will have a lot more fun if you practice a bit out to 5-600 yards so you can figure out wind and range settings for your gun and scope before you go there.

Have fun with it!

[FJ540]

How much are you looking to spend on glass? I think we need a budget before we start throwing out options.

[aht_six]

Back when I only owned one scope, I shot plenty of prairie dogs using an old Leupold 3 X 9 scope. Your 10X scope could be used to start out.

I have Nikon, Leupold, and Burris scopes on my dedicated varmint rifles. Magnification from 4.5 X 14 on the lighter calibers, up to 6 X 24 on my favorite .22-250. I think the mil-dot or ballistic-plex style reticles are ideal for long distance prairie dogs.

I would consider the Nikon Buckmaster and Burris Fullfield II 4.5 X 14s to be good moderately priced scopes for varmint shooting, they're both around $300.

[rugersol]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/746570/ ... check the reviews!

[samginko]

I recently bought a cz527 in 7.62x39. I was so impressed, I decided to buy the cz527 in .223. 1/9 twist. I do not plan on shooting past 350yds. I hope not to spend more than $500.

[JJ]

If you are going to go into a BDC, mildot, or similar, it's not worth the money unless you are investing in a First Focal Plane scope. With a second focal place (most low cost optics) the stadia marks will not remain constant to the target if you change magnification at all. A FFP reticle remains constant relative to the target. You will want either a Adjustable Objective or Side Focus to dial out parralax on longer shots.

Anything more than 24x is not worth your time. The mirage on hot days makes consistent shooting a PITA. I personally prefer a 3-15, as my 4-20's even get to be a little much in the mirage department if its real hot.

Personally I don't think you can beat a Weaver V16. A MN company, and a very solid and well respected optic that has been in service for a long time. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/144620 ... icle-matte

[yuppiejr]

If you are going to go into a BDC, mildot, or similar, it's not worth the money unless you are investing in a First Focal Plane scope. With a second focal place (most low cost optics) the stadia marks will not remain constant to the target if you change magnification at all. A FFP reticle remains constant relative to the target. You will want either a Adjustable Objective or Side Focus to dial out parralax on longer shots.

Anything more than 24x is not worth your time. The mirage on hot days makes consistent shooting a PITA. I personally prefer a 3-15, as my 4-20's even get to be a little much in the mirage department if its real hot.

Personally I don't think you can beat a Weaver V16. A MN company, and a very solid and well respected optic that has been in service for a long time. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/144620 ... icle-matte

Great info (from someone who has a lot of experience blasting prairie dogs for those who are not aware)!

The second focal plane Nikon Monarch scopes I've played with that have Mildot reticules include an indication at the specific magnification for which the mildot stadia marks are calibrated (10x on my 4-16x42mm MD for example). It is possible to get accurate results for rangefinding/holdover calculation with a non FFP (first focal plane) scope but you have to use it at a specific magnification setting to get accurate results OR test and calculate your own data points at the others.

For those that don't get the difference, in layman's terms (which is about the extent of my knowledge in this area) a first focal plane scope's reticule will APPEAR to get larger or smaller as you dial the magnification higher or lower which means the stadia marks on the reticule will remain correctly spaced in relation to the object you are looking at for rangefinding/hold over calculations... A second focal plane scope (most of the optics out there) will have a reticule that remain the same size in relation to whatever magnification you use which means the BDC or Mildot/ballistic reticule marks are only valid at ONE magnification setting, not the full range.

For example, if you use the BDC reticle on a Nikon scope (any model) their manual indicates they are calibrated to be accurate for factoring hold-over ONLY at the highest magnification setting (http://www.nikonusa.com/pdf/sportoptics ... 0Guide.pdf) - if you use the same BDC reticule circle to line up a shot at 100 yards you will find a different POI at 3x and 9x.

Easy solution if you don't have a budget to cover a FPP scope and don't want to worry about forgetting to set magnification to the right value on a variable BDC model is to buy a fixed power scope with mildot markings and 1/10 mil adjustable turrets (Bushnell's Elite 10x mil/mil scope is highly regarded and usually found for $199 at Midway, SWFA also sells their house brand scope in a few fixed magnifications that is well reviewed and priced). While mildot is traditionally used to calculate range on known-size objects, the mil indications can also be used to factor hold-over (or to correctly dial in clicks of elevation) once you know bullet drop at different ranges with your rifle/ammo combination.

[JJ]

Great info (from someone who has a lot of experience blasting prairie dogs for those who are not aware)!

I wouldn't go that far One really good trip, but hopefully by this time next year I will have three under my belt.

I was all jazzed to see my T36 and 6mmBr perform, but found out quickly that it had WAY too much magnification. It will have a new scope on it for this year. We were shooting in temps close to 100, and I found even a quality 20x scope made the mirage tough. Some of that will depend on your shooting situation. When we were shooting across a flatpasture the mirage was terrible. On the other hand shooting from an elevated location and across a velly, it wasn't too bad at all.

[Retrograde]

Vortex is a company worth checking out:

http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/riflescopes

They have a "no-questions asked, lifetime guarantee." If you break it, they'll replace it, even if you bought it used. It includes everything they make, from the $100 entry level scopes to the $2k top of the line stuff. I have 2 from the "Viper" series - a 6.5-20x44 and a 2-7x32, and both are great. I'd think the 6.5-20 would be awesome for prairie dogs, and it's about $420 new.

[FJ540]

Search "warehouse deals" on amazon. My conquest was half of everyone else's best price, and the only thing I could find wrong with it was the box it came in looked a bit tired. Had never been mounted, and not a single print on either lens.

[45Badger]

What is you budget? NIkon is great for under $300. for $600-800, you can get a used 6.5-20x40 leupy with 30mm tube, side focus.

[yuppiejr]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Monarch-4 ... 27cebd9672

Nikon Monarch 4-16x42, side focus (Nicoplex / Duplex reticule) for $375 shipped, brand new

[samginko]

I was following couple of Nikon Monarchs on the EBay. But, as luck would have it a Leupold VX-III 6.5-20X40mm varmint hunters retical popped up on armslist for $400. I am going to pick it up this Thursday.

http://www.armslist.com/posts/834627/

Thanks to everyone for good advice.