Why no used M&Ps FS ?

[t140]

[
From what I've heard the slam fire was after slingshotting the slide, actual cause of the slam fire unknown.

FWIW. My opinion on your slam fire theory is; it happened once, maybe. The slam fire situation may or may not have been cause by the ammo malfunctioning, gun malfunctioning or a finger malfunctioning. Since you're hearing a friend of a friend had it happen, there's really no verification.

Furthermore, this has been claimed to happen once? I did a quick google and couldn't find any other slam fires related to M&P's. I would say S&W's QA is damn good if this is the only even half assed report of it. It may have also been a high primer or twitchy finger. Remember - the guys with high levels of training have the most accidents.

Cliffs: I'm not worried about slam fires with M&P's, and I don't think anyone else should be.

[Hmac]

[
From what I've heard the slam fire was after slingshotting the slide, actual cause of the slam fire unknown.

FWIW. My opinion on your slam fire theory is; it happened once, maybe. The slam fire situation may or may not have been cause by the ammo malfunctioning, gun malfunctioning or a finger malfunctioning. Since you're hearing a friend of a friend had it happen, there's really no verification.

Furthermore, this has been claimed to happen once? I did a quick google and couldn't find any other slam fires related to M&P's. I would say S&W's QA is damn good if this is the only even half assed report of it. It may have also been a high primer or twitchy finger. Remember - the guys with high levels of training have the most accidents.

Cliffs: I'm not worried about slam fires with M&P's, and I don't think anyone else should be.

I suspect any such slam fire is more likely to be a trigger finger malfunction than a malfunction of any of the various safety mechanisms. As to S&W's QA, they did let my particular M&P (and others) out the door with a tendency to autoforward and with a barrel lockup sufficient to impair accuracy.

[t140]

I suspect any such slam fire is more likely to be a trigger finger malfunction than a malfunction of any of the various safety mechanisms. As to S&W's QA, they did let my particular M&P (and others) out the door with a tendency to autoforward and with a barrel lockup sufficient to impair accuracy.

I've been following your discussion. I'm still on the fence about whether the auto forward is a feature or design failure. I haven't read much about the barrel lockup. Only that M&P's seem to be very inaccurate compared with other handguns. I will be looking into lockup further, thanks.

I will say that it does surprise me that Apex hasn't come out with something to cure the auto forward for those who dislike it. Maybe I should look into that.

[MNGunGuy]

As to the danger, it depends on where the pistol is pointing when you slap the magazine home, doesn't it? Downrange? Up and left? (which is your daughter's bedroom). Since this is not conventional semi-automatic pistol manual of arms, not an advertised design feature, and the vast majority of good quality pistols don't do it (given the same amount of force) then I conclude it's a defect in some M&P pistols. Mine included.

Your gun should always be pointed in a safe direction, period. A gun that doesn't function as intended or as you think it should doesn't give you an excuse to disregard muzzle discipline.

A gun doing something unpredictable is always bad. I'm not gonna argue about this. I'm right.

Completely predictable for me. I can dictate the slide releasing with 100% certainty each and every time.

How can it slam fire with a firing pin safety? Any evidence of this happening or is it theory?

Theory, I've heard it happening before while slingshotting a slide. I would consider #3 a "worst case" scenario. The first two issues are enough for me not to do it.

No way that's happening with the striker block in place.

[t140]

Your gun should always be pointed in a safe direction, period. A gun that doesn't function as intended or as you think it should doesn't give you an excuse to disregard muzzle discipline.

So if someone's attacking me and I see cause in pulling out my handgun, it's not supposed to be pointed at the threat?

Pretty sure I knew what you meant, but obviously it's left open to interpretation.

[MNGunGuy]

Your gun should always be pointed in a safe direction, period. A gun that doesn't function as intended or as you think it should doesn't give you an excuse to disregard muzzle discipline.

So if someone's attacking me and I see cause in pulling out my handgun, it's not supposed to be pointed at the threat?

Pretty sure I knew what you meant, but obviously it's left open to interpretation.

There's nothing to interpret when it comes to the word safe imo and a threat being there doesn't automagicly make it safe to point your weapon at it. This of course has nothing to do with a slide moving forward due to seating the mag firmly and increased risk.

[Hmac]

As to the danger, it depends on where the pistol is pointing when you slap the magazine home, doesn't it? Downrange? Up and left? (which is your daughter's bedroom). Since this is not conventional semi-automatic pistol manual of arms, not an advertised design feature, and the vast majority of good quality pistols don't do it (given the same amount of force) then I conclude it's a defect in some M&P pistols. Mine included.

Your gun should always be pointed in a safe direction, period. A gun that doesn't function as intended or as you think it should doesn't give you an excuse to disregard muzzle discipline.

A gun doing something unpredictable is always bad. I'm not gonna argue about this. I'm right.

Completely predictable for me. I can dictate the slide releasing with 100% certainty each and every time.

How can it slam fire with a firing pin safety? Any evidence of this happening or is it theory?

Theory, I've heard it happening before while slingshotting a slide. I would consider #3 a "worst case" scenario. The first two issues are enough for me not to do it.

No way that's happening with the striker block in place.

Yeah, yeah. OK, here's the bottom line for me. The S&W M&P series is a good, serviceable handgun, but like any manufacturing company they let some clinkers slide through. S&W has done that with, IMHO, a higher-than-expected frequency, and I got one of those clinkers. I am not inclined to recommend it to people at the top of the list of potential handgun purchases as long as there are better pistols out there that don't malfunction. As I've said, I don't have a practical problem with autoforwarding. But it's a defect in the design and manufacture. IMHO.

[t140]

There's nothing to interpret when it comes to the word safe imo and a threat being there doesn't automagicly make it safe to point your weapon at it. This of course has nothing to do with a slide moving forward due to seating the mag firmly and increased risk.

So what you're saying is, it's not safe to point a handgun at an imminent lethal threat? I should reload and clear malfunctions pointed at the ground... That's interesting.

[MNGunGuy]

There's nothing to interpret when it comes to the word safe imo and a threat being there doesn't automagicly make it safe to point your weapon at it. This of course has nothing to do with a slide moving forward due to seating the mag firmly and increased risk.

So what you're saying is, it's not safe to point a handgun at an imminent lethal threat? I should reload and clear malfunctions pointed at the ground... That's interesting.

I'm saying a threat alone doesn't make the situation safe to draw or fire as you inferred. If there's a person that isn't posing a threat behind the threat do you still draw? What about duty to retreat if possible? Again, this has nothing to do with the original chain of discussion. Why continue on?

[snlit3]

most people just throw them away after they are done with them, m&p disposables.

[plblark]

I have mine. I like them. Why would I sell them?

[t140]

I'm saying a threat alone doesn't make the situation safe to draw or fire as you inferred. If there's a person that isn't posing a threat behind the threat do you still draw? What about duty to retreat if possible? Again, this has nothing to do with the original chain of discussion. Why continue on?

Actually, what I inferred in my hypothetical situation was; that there is a lethal threat and I see it fit to draw. This is unarguable. As I saw it fit to draw, means that my unlock codes have all been given. You can argue with me all you want about what I said, the point is, if there's a threat and a permit to carry holder deems it necessary to draw (obviously in fear for their life) then they shouldn't be pointing anywhere else but the threat.

You can also throw all kinds of other variables out there. The fact of the matter is, I brought up a single situation. You going rampant and throwing in your own variables is ridiculous.

[Evo]

BTW, my M&P auto-forwards on magazine insertion about 80% of the time. Doesn't bother me, but hard to imagine it was intentionally designed.

Just curious, have you tried switching out the slide stop assembly? I have heard of it curing some people's issues with auto-forwarding.

Also I would be interested in hearing your shooting comparison and just overall thoughts between your PPQ and your m&pL as it sits now with the new barrel and everything.

[Hmac]

BTW, my M&P auto-forwards on magazine insertion about 80% of the time. Doesn't bother me, but hard to imagine it was intentionally designed.

Just curious, have you tried switching out the slide stop assembly? I have heard of it curing some people's issues with auto-forwarding.

Also I would be interested in hearing your shooting comparison and just overall thoughts between your PPQ and your m&pL as it sits now with the new barrel and everything.

No, I haven't gotten around to replacing anything in the slide stop assembly. I'll have to work on that.

Putting in the fitted Storm Lake barrel really made a big difference in accuracy (as determined from sandbag rest at 25 yards), and the DCAEK makes for a great trigger, but IMHO the PPQ is hands-down superior to the M&P in every way that's meaningful to me. I'm more accurate with the Walther out of the box than after $300 in upgrades to the M&P.

[Synergy]

My M&P 9 is really good now that I put the Apex FSS, cost about 160. Before that it sucked, the trigger was so bad my poi was all over the place. Since I have what I do into it and its now shooting good there's no reason for me to sell it especially for what I could get.

I have been looking at the PPQ as well, looks good and have heard great things about them.