Slide Fire Stock For AR-15

[farmerj]

This really would need to be put in a courtroom, but as I see the design of the stock, it does not allow you to fire the weapon any faster than you could without it. You are simply bumpfiring the rifle in a more controlled manner.

Same thing you can do with a belt loop.

[Snowgun]

Same thing you can do with a belt loop.

This really would need to be put in a courtroom, but as I see the design of the stock, it does not allow you to fire the weapon any faster than you could without it. You are simply bumpfiring the rifle in a more controlled manner.

I don't agree that the previously quoted statute specifically bans the product because I don't believe that the product allows a person to pull the trigger faster than a skilled shooter could work the trigger without the device. The cyclic rate in the videos of this thing in action aren't any higher than the cyclic rates in a video of a well practiced bumpfirer, or videos of a skilled person working with trigger reset shooting techniques.

This is all true, the product works by having the whole stock slide in and out. Right on the left side of the trigger guard, there is a plastic shelf you can put your trigger finger on. You pull the rifle forward from the handgrip (my brother had a fore stock grip at about 45 degrees to help with this), and commence bump firing.

As soon as they make bumpfiring illegal, which anyone can do, then we have a problem.

[Daddyo]

(d) "Trigger activator" means a removable manual or power driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that, when attached to a firearm, the rate at which the trigger may be pulled increases and the rate of fire of the firearm increases to that of a machine gun.

So what is the official rate of fire at which something becomes a machine gun? Sounds like a quick booger-hook could get you in trouble as well.

[Flyby]

(d) "Trigger activator" means a removable manual or power driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that, when attached to a firearm, the rate at which the trigger may be pulled increases and the rate of fire of the firearm increases to that of a machine gun.

The only place I could see this stock becoming an issue is if its considered a removable device but in that case a rifle wouldn't then be a rifle but a heavy hand gun. Also according to this language couldnt an aftermarket competition trigger with a light pull and short reset also potentially be put into this category?

Personally I dont see this becoming a big legality issue yet until someone anywhere in this country uses this particular butt stock in a crime then I can guarantee this product will be front page headlines on every news network.

[bulletproof]

Minnesota statutes are fairly clear that this sort of device is illegal. Even though it has BATFE approval it's still illegal in Minnesota.

Clear? On this subject? Did we read the same statute? How long have you been practing law?

I don't know if we read the same statute, or if you bothered to read the definition of a trigger activator. The manufacture of the slidefire claims it's removable and functions similarly to the gatlin system on their website. If it takes a court rulings before you'll consider something illegal, best of luck to you.

So what is the official rate of fire at which something becomes a machine gun? Sounds like a quick booger-hook could get you in trouble as well.

Edit: I agree with that. Using your booger-hook with a belt or any other object to assist in pulling the trigger at a rapid rate could get you in trouble.

[Holland&Holland]

I don't know if we read the same statute, or if you bothered to read the definition of a trigger activator. The manufacture of the slidefire claims it's removable and functions similarly to the gatlin system on their website. If it takes a court rulings before you'll consider something illegal, best of luck to you.

I did read the definition of a trigger activator. And, yes it generaly takes a court order or legislation to make something legal illegal. Best of luck prosecuting this.

[bulletproof]

I did read the definition of a trigger activator. And, yes it generaly takes a court order or legislation to make something legal illegal. Best of luck prosecuting this.

I'm not trying to come from that perspective. Unfortunately Minnesota statutes are written in such a way that if someone was prosecuted using a slidefire they could run into some serious problems.

[Lunchbox]

Could just say it falls into a legal gray area? You takes your chances.
Legal or not its all in how someone interprets the law and if they want to be a dick about it and make trouble for you. Like it was stated earlier there hasn't been a test case yet. Cant speak for anyone else, but I don't want to be the first.

[JJ]

Could just say it falls into a legal gray area? You takes your chances.
Legal or not its all in how someone interprets the law and if they want to be a dick about it and make trouble for you. Like it was stated earlier there hasn't been a test case yet. Cant speak for anyone else, but I don't want to be the first.

I would have to agree. i think the Statute is vauge enough that it COULD create problems. But IANAL

[justaguy]

Could just say it falls into a legal gray area? You takes your chances.
Legal or not its all in how someone interprets the law and if they want to be a dick about it and make trouble for you. Like it was stated earlier there hasn't been a test case yet. Cant speak for anyone else, but I don't want to be the first.

I would have to agree. i think the Statute is vauge enough that it COULD create problems. But IANAL

+1

[Holland&Holland]

But as reported in this post there is a MN retailer selling it in MN. So test case seems to be que'd up and waiting. Just saying.

[xd9]

So I have been hearing these discussed on national media. Do these make it harder to win our fight? If it meant keeping my stock* rifle as it is, I would pass on these.




Stock meaning non-bump fire modified.

Thoughts?

[hornswaggle]

They had some at Ahlman's Shooters Roundup last year and I watched a few people shoot them. They look like a lot of fun if you're budget can handle how much ammo you will go through. My opinion is that there is enough confusion in the media over what exactly differentiates a semi-auto sporting rifle and a full-blown evil assault weapon aka machine gun (I'm sure some is intentional to further the cause...) that having this in the news doesn't do us any favors. I agree with others that this is a test case waiting to happen and I'll choose to watch from a distance. In the meantime, if they are at Ahlman's again this year I might have to let my son talk me into paying for us to try it out.

[jshuberg]

the way i see it, full auto (by mechanics or stock) is a waste of money. sure it'd be fun, and it IS fun, but it's a quick way to blow through a ton of ammo, and do it inacurately.

I beg to differ, they are a fantastic investment as well as being fun! Also, I tend to think it's a great way to blow through a ton of ammo pretty darn accurately as well

[Collector1337420]

They are legal in MN. I've seen them at several dealers, several gun shows, and just saw them in Ahlman's shop on Friday. (Along with their $50 steel AR mags, WTF?)

In my opinion, people who are saying they are illegal should just try and keep their voice down. I don't think they're doing anyone any favors.

Those who say, "it's a waste of ammo," etc., might be right, but who cares. It's not your ammo. Just think what gun guys who shoot bolt actions, levers, etc. think about guys who even own ARs or AKs period.

That being said, they are overpriced, but when I find a good deal on one, it's one of those, "I'm buying one before it's illegal" kind of thing, like a Beta-C mag or Glock 33 round 9mm mags, only to actually put it on a rifle when I get around to it, or feel like it.

Exercise your freedom while you still can.

Also, I've managed to be pretty accurate with all the real full-autos I've shot (MP5, M4, M4 chambered in .300 Blackout), so since the slide fire is a few hundred rounds less per minute, in rate of fire, it's very controllable and I would say definitely accurate. The user's skill has a lot to do with this though obviously.