A Warning To You All

View · by **oldguy** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:09 pm

There is far more at stake here than many realize. I have been a supporter of the Second Amendment not only because of my ownership of guns, but also because of the light that this issue sheds on the mindset of our opponents.

The authors of these bills, Hausman, Hornstein and the rest dislike guns, but they dislike something else even more. They have a visceral hatred for the lifestyle they represent. Obama gave us a glimpse into their world with his "guns and God" quote. Gun owners represent to them not so much physical danger but rather political danger. They see most gun people as productive citizens, taking very little in the way of government help. Independent by nature and skeptical of government intervention, these people are not easily convinced when they are told by "experts" what is good for them. They aren't as easily bullied into submission as the general population. Why else would they focus on guns and not the misuse of guns?

The authors of these bills are a far cry from the Democrats of my youth. Hubert Humphrey was a supporter of gun rights. The lifestyle tolerant leftists show their intolerance. Read the bills. What hatred they have. Turn in your weapon for destruction. If we let you keep it, we'll come into your home once a year and make sure you've got it safely tucked away. Only a mind full of hate could promote a society that treats honest citizens worse than crack dealers. Think about it. What assurance do you have that in another state of left wing hysteria you'll be allowed to keep you're land, your home, your 401k. It's shocking to me, that in my home state, any elected official would publicly endorse such a thing and not be castigated by their party. Giving HF241a hearing is a slap in the face to everyone in this state. If you believe, as I do, that in this form the bill will never be enacted into law and are comfortable with that: wake up. Pandora's Box has been opened and those that did the opening will in all likelihood suffer no punishment. It'll be hell trying to close the box again.

This is a another battle in an ongoing war, but it has to be won and not just by gun owners. It is not isolated in it's scope. Everyone that believes strongly in our Constitution and way of life has a dog in this hunt.

View · by **Sarge_44** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:25 pm

oldguy wrote:Independent by nature and skeptical of government intervention, these people are not easily convinced when they are told by "experts" what is good for them.

The lifestyle tolerant leftists show their intolerance. Read the bills. What hatred they have.

Aren't these the people though that want to tell women what to do with their bodies and want to tell others who they can love? I see a lot of intolerance there.

Liberal Gun Owner

View · by **clauwitz** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:49 pm

Sarge_44 wrote:
oldguy wrote:Independent by nature and skeptical of government intervention, these people are not easily convinced when they are told by "experts" what is good for them.

The lifestyle tolerant leftists show their intolerance. Read the bills. What hatred they have.

Aren't these the people though that want to tell women what to do with their bodies and want to tell others who they can love? I see a lot of intolerance there.

Liberal Gun Owner

I assume by "tell women what to do with their bodies" you mean they believe in protecting life from when they believe it begins. Those people don't aim to tell the women to have or not to have sex, they just want them to own up to the consequences of their actions (babies are a consequence of having sex) while protecting innocent life. If it's intolerant to believe in protecting innocent life, then let's get rid of laws against murdering people that are inconvenient to you.

I assume by "tell others who they can love" you mean don't support a special legal contract between two persons of the same sex (gender). You're confusing the right of association with a legal privilege. Let's make sure that we specify what we're talking about.

I personally am pro-life, while I am against government involvement in marriage in any respect (heterosexual or homosexual or polygamous).

View · by **antimatter** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:51 pm

Burglars have bars on their windows.

Car thieves have Lojack in stalled in their rides.

We have a tendency to paint those we hate with the things we fear most about ourselves.

Besides which, I can think of no better way to marginalize your own effectiveness as a representative for the issue than to caricature the other side.

View · by **Heffay** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:08 pm

antimatter wrote:
Besides which, I can think of no better way to marginalize your own effectiveness as a representative for the issue than to caricature the other side.

Holy **** **** I've been looking for a way to say that even half as effectively. This is exactly right, and today I bow to your superior wordsmithing skills.

/insert standing applause gif

View · by **oldguy** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:10 pm

The Republican party has it's share of haters too. However it seems they are quickly denounced and thrown out. Not so with these representatives. As an old guy, I seem to have moved gradually toward a Libertarian view. Do what you want,
don't ask me to approve of it and don't harm others while doing it. If you don't like, or are afraid of guns, fine. Don't take them away or tell me I can't eat a cheeseburger just because you don't approve.

View · by **river_boater** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:13 pm

I think oldguy is exactly right, and I've always believed this: it's not about guns, never has been, it's about the "kind" of people that own guns.

View · by **grousemaster** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:18 pm

Sarge_44 wrote:
oldguy wrote:Independent by nature and skeptical of government intervention, these people are not easily convinced when they are told by "experts" what is good for them.

The lifestyle tolerant leftists show their intolerance. Read the bills. What hatred they have.

Aren't these the people though that want to tell women what to do with their bodies and want to tell others who they can love? I see a lot of intolerance there.

Liberal Gun Owner

You mean, limiting abortion by "telling women what to do with their bodies"? Why is it bad for people to have guns which might someday kill, but fine to actually kill babies? Who told anyone who they can love?

View · by **MNHandK** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:02 pm

Sarge_44 wrote:
oldguy wrote:Independent by nature and skeptical of government intervention, these people are not easily convinced when they are told by "experts" what is good for them.

The lifestyle tolerant leftists show their intolerance. Read the bills. What hatred they have.

Aren't these the people though that want to tell women what to do with their bodies and want to tell others who they can love? I see a lot of intolerance there.

Liberal Gun Owner

It's not telling women what they can and cannot do with their bodies.. Or telling people who they can or cannot love. That may be the liberal understanding of it.. An uneducated one at that.

View · by **jshuberg** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:12 pm

He's right. I know, I read it on a bumper sticker!

View · by **Holland&Holland** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:14 pm

Are you kidding me? No wonder we have lost and all our guns are going to be confiscated. We can't get gun people together over guns without agruing about abortion and gay marriage? Thanks guys, way to stick.

View · by **jshuberg** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:19 pm

The OP called the libs out on what he believes is their underlying motives. What do you expect? I'm surprised someone hadn't brought up how it's all Bush's fault by now.

View · by **antimatter** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:37 pm

Guys, the people who are really passionate on both sides have experiences that relate to the issue. The person who has defended a loved one, vs the parent who's had a child killed by a stray bullet. You aren't going to change either one of these people's opinions, but you can sway the folks who fall outside of the advocates. If you draw a line down the middle of the crowd, half the unaligned folks will be on one side and half on the other. If you insult the unaligned folks on the other side of the line, you're going to have zero chance of convincing them of the correctness of your viewpoint.

Spouting off and foaming at the mouth may make you feel good, but could cost you the argument. Remember, anything on the internet can be found and accessed by just about anyone.

View · by **AFTERMATH** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:06 pm

Holland&Holland wrote:Are you kidding me? No wonder we have lost and all our guns are going to be confiscated. We can't get gun people together over guns without agruing about abortion and gay marriage? Thanks guys, way to stick.

Liberty minded folks have the disadvantage of being architects attempting to build/rebuild a free society as they imagine it should be. Whereas the forces of tyranny have the advantage of being the demolition team. It doesn't really matter where they place their charges o swing the wrecking ball or demolish with a bulldozer. If they do it enough times, in enough places, it's going to bring the building down.

There lay the nearly impossible task before us, of gathering all of the architects together in relative cohesion. Coherence may be too much to ask for.

View · by **Holland&Holland** on Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:19 pm

AFTERMATH wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:Are you kidding me? No wonder we have lost and all our guns are going to be confiscated. We can't get gun people together over guns without agruing about abortion and gay marriage? Thanks guys, way to stick.

Liberty minded folks have the disadvantage of being architects attempting to build/rebuild a free society as they imagine it should be. Whereas the forces of tyranny have the advantage of being the demolition team. It doesn't really matter where they place their charges o swing the wrecking ball or demolish with a bulldozer. If they do it enough times, in enough places, it's going to bring the building down.

There lay the nearly impossible task before us, of gathering all of the architects together in relative cohesion. Coherence may be too much to ask for.

And who is the tyrant? That is the real question here. Seems like I have allot of people on "my side" who want to control me just as much as those on the other side.