School shootings from the 1700's to present day in the US

[Heffay]

Anecdotes ain't evidence.

So you believe Sandy Hook didn't occur?

I believe Sandy Hook is an anecdote, and not proof that society is decaying. All data points to society becoming more safe overall.

[St. Olaf]

Sandy Hook was a statistical aberration ..... and proves nothing.

Now, as to whether or not America is going to hell in a handbasket......

I'd say, in general, absolutely.

(Unless cooler heads prevail.)

Hope springs eternal.

[Erud]

The somewhat rich kids get a pretty good public school education and many can afford the tuition at a good college even though tuition costs are probably about 25 times what they were 25 years ago.

Wait a minute, my kid is currently attending one of MN's public universities and it is costing just over $17k/year. Are you telling me that in 1987 the same education would have only cost $700/year?

[DoxaPar]

Anecdotes ain't evidence.

So you believe Sandy Hook didn't occur?

I believe Sandy Hook is an anecdote, and not proof that society is decaying. All data points to society becoming more safe overall.

Huxley's world was very safe. There is more to "society is decaying" than safety. Crime rates are an anecdote.

[Heffay]

Huxley's world was very safe. There is more to "society is decaying" than safety. Crime rates are an anecdote.

Like productivity? GDP? Quality of life? Technology? Opportunities? Civil rights? Gun rights?

All those seem to be going up.

[DoxaPar]

I'm not sure you grasp the point I was making in my reference to Huxley.

[Heffay]

I'm not sure you grasp the point I was making in my reference to Huxley.

Yah, 1984. Get it. We're not even close to that. And we're not going in that direction.

[DoxaPar]

You don't get it. Not even close. BNW was a very different "prophesy" than 1984.

[Heffay]

You don't get it. Not even close. BNW was a very different "prophesy" than 1984.

Err.. my bad. You are right about the title. However, neither "prophesy" is coming true.

[DoxaPar]

Why?

Maybe you can start by explaining the difference between BNW and 1984 and how BNW is unlike the trajectory of today's social climate since that is your assertion. At least defend your proposition.

I suspect you haven't read either and therefore, are in no position to comment on the accuracy of either.

[Heffay]

Why?

Maybe you can start by explaining the difference between BNW and 1984 and how BNW is unlike the trajectory of today's social climate since that is your assertion. At least defend your proposition.

I suspect you haven't read either and therefore, are in no position to comment on the accuracy of either.

You want me to write a book report for you? I have read them both. I look around at society today. There isn't anything close to what either of those books describe. It's just a load of angst for people who want to believe everything is falling apart. Which, I guess, makes you no different than your parents, or their parents, or any set of parents since the dawn of time.

</end get off my lawn>

[DoxaPar]

Not a book.

But when dialoguing about this stuff it would be good to at least understand the opposition's position. Clarity in positions should proceed debate, imho. In this case, simply asking the question, "Why might DoxaPar think that Huxley's BNW shares similar elements to our society and how those things may be construed as 'social decay' when Huxley's utopia had no war, famine, poverty, was technologically advanced, etc?".

Repeatedly you've said that society isn't in decay because crime is low. I'm trying to put forth the position that there are other aspects to "social decay" than crime. BNW is a good example of this since it is (in most people's views) probably as close to a perfect utopia as can be imagined.

[NMRMN]

Heffay from MNGUNTALK.COM says nothing is wrong with our society and no one has anything to worry about ever anymore.
If you disagree, you are just like your parents, and their parents, etc. And worse, you are probably loony.
It must be settled then. Heffay said it.

[St. Olaf]

The somewhat rich kids get a pretty good public school education and many can afford the tuition at a good college even though tuition costs are probably about 25 times what they were 25 years ago.

Wait a minute, my kid is currently attending one of MN's public universities and it is costing just over $17k/year. Are you telling me that in 1987 the same education would have only cost $700/year?

I said "tuition costs." Are you talking about tuition or total cost?

[St. Olaf]

Not a book.

But when dialoguing about this stuff it would be good to at least understand the opposition's position. Clarity in positions should proceed debate, imho. In this case, simply asking the question, "Why might DoxaPar think that Huxley's BNW shares similar elements to our society and how those things may be construed as 'social decay' when Huxley's utopia had no war, famine, poverty, was technologically advanced, etc?".

Repeatedly you've said that society isn't in decay because crime is low. I'm trying to put forth the position that there are other aspects to "social decay" than crime. BNW is a good example of this since it is (in most people's views) probably as close to a perfect utopia as can be imagined.

The problem is, you're talking about the wrong books.

Today's America is like the America of "It Can't Happen Here," by Sinclair Lewis.

Try to choose your comparisons with a little more accuracy.