Hearing March 21

[Texastransplant]

I'm new to MN so help me out here. Don't we already need a PTP or PTC to buy those kinds of weapons any way? Regardless of location?

[jshuberg]

Only if the seller is an FFL. It's not required for sales between private individuals. Since the vast majority of people selling at gun shows are FFLs, it will have very little to no effect on gun show transfers. Also, since only 0.7% of crime guns are acquired through gun shows, closing the "gun show loophole" is just political theater, and will have zero effect on crime.

The purpose of passing this bill wasn't for the language in the bill, it was just to get something passed before Friday that can then be amended to do what they truly want.

[Texastransplant]

Only if the seller is an FFL. It's not required for sales between private individuals. Since the vast majority of people selling at gun shows are FFLs, it will have very little to no effect on gun show transfers. Also, since only 0.7% of crime guns are acquired through gun shows, closing the "gun show loophole" is just political theater, and will have zero effect on crime.

The purpose of passing this bill wasn't for the language in the bill, it was just to get something passed before Friday that can then be amended to do what they truly want.

I see. Thanks! Back to the phones I go!

[XDM45]

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/21 ... w-loophole

"ST. PAUL, Minn. (KMSP) -
A last-minute meeting came together in a Minnesota House committee on Thursday to take-up a bill from Rep. John Lesch (DFL-St. Paul) to close the so-called gun show loophole.
The Public Safety Committee voted 10-8 Thursday on a compromise bill that removed a universal background check provision but kept an amendment to require background checks between private party sales at gun shows.

Read more: Minn. House committee votes 10-8 to close gun show loophole - KMSP-TV http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/21 ... z2OHI0acyV
Lesch's version of the bill is now headed to the floor of the House of Representatives, where Republican Rep. Tony Cornish -- a vocal NRA supporter and gun control opponent -- has promised vigorous debate."

So we MAY have a universal background check - at gun shows - if it passes the House too, but it's not a far leap to go from there to universal background check for private sales that aren't at gun shows. They are positioning, not compromising.

By the way, http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/comm/docs/H0285DE6.pdf (middle of page 6), that looks pretty toothless in Section 7.

[Heffay]

So we MAY have a universal background check - at gun shows - if it passes the House too, but it's not a far leap to go from there to universal background check for private sales that aren't at gun shows. They are positioning, not compromising.

So? They get to claim they've closed the gun show loophole.

On the other hand, they never get to use that argument again.

[Mn01r6]

They made it toothless so it would pass the committee but still cover the topic. When it goes to the floor you should expect to see amendments attempting to add fangs.

[XDM45]

They made it toothless so it would pass the committee but still cover the topic. When it goes to the floor you should expect to see amendments attempting to add fangs.

That will be a different bill and it may not pass. We just need to keep fighting is all.

[Holland&Holland]

So we MAY have a universal background check - at gun shows - if it passes the House too, but it's not a far leap to go from there to universal background check for private sales that aren't at gun shows. They are positioning, not compromising.

So? They get to claim they've closed the gun show loophole.

On the other hand, they never get to use that argument again.

No, next they will need to close the privite sale loop hole, then they will need to improve teh privisions of both these laws, then they will need to document the transactions for better law enforcement of the current (at that time) laws. Am I paranoid? Maybe but I just want to be LTFA.

[Thunder71]

I think what's next is Minnesota needs to start putting pro gun legislation in the running, every year. Kind of tired of the defensive role, we tried the last couple years, we need to keep trying.

[XDM45]

So we MAY have a universal background check - at gun shows - if it passes the House too, but it's not a far leap to go from there to universal background check for private sales that aren't at gun shows. They are positioning, not compromising.

So? They get to claim they've closed the gun show loophole.

On the other hand, they never get to use that argument again.

No, next they will need to close the privite sale loop hole, then they will need to improve teh privisions of both these laws, then they will need to document the transactions for better law enforcement of the current (at that time) laws. Am I paranoid? Maybe but I just want to be LTFA.

No, you have your eyes open. That's not paranoia, that's wisdom. If the government has power, it abuses it. After all, look what it does with money and how wasteful it is, how irresponsible it is. If government will be like that with money, how much more so would it be with rights? If we lose rights as you speculate H&H, all of those things will take what? MORE MONEY!! Which will be spent how? Now everyone is getting the idea. We pay in many ways when rights are taken away.

[XDM45]

I think what's next is Minnesota needs to start putting pro gun legislation in the running, every year. Kind of tired of the defensive role, we tried the last couple years, we need to keep trying.

I've been preaching that on here for a short time. In all fairness, Cornish and others have tried, but that doesn't mean that we give up or that it can't be done. We just need to keep this momentum going and add to it. I have a feeling that if gun legislation goes away and there's no more "threats", that we as a community will back off -- until next time. That's a stupid move in my opinion. We need to push harder and get pro-freedom / pro-gun legislation since the more we have on the books to weave a tangled web to make it harder for the AGers to unravel.

[JJ]

I think what's next is Minnesota needs to start putting pro gun legislation in the running, every year. Kind of tired of the defensive role, we tried the last couple years, we need to keep trying.

Something we can both agree on. Sitting back and playing punching bag to the Anti's can only go so long, eventually wear and tear will take it's toll.

[XDM45]

I think what's next is Minnesota needs to start putting pro gun legislation in the running, every year. Kind of tired of the defensive role, we tried the last couple years, we need to keep trying.

Something we can both agree on. Sitting back and playing punching bag to the Anti's can only go so long, eventually wear and tear will take it's toll.

With all of the brain power here, and I know none or few of us are lawyers, we should draft up something in a forum on here that WE want to see in place. Each person can copy the previous post, edit, add to it, repost. Once we get something we can all )mostly agree on), submit it to Cornish. Will it be perfect and legal? No, of course not. It WILL be a good concept of what WE want though.

Just an idea I'm tossing out there. Run with it or not.

[sansooshooter]

Man I just hate the political class. These people are the worst no matter what they just want their way and to hell with freedom or any other personal rights!
Remember the seat belt law ,started out toothless and look where it is now.
This gun show loop hole is a starting point for sure.
The pro government people just don't comprehend that continual growth of government and laws and regulation always leads to destroying the society!
Guys like Paymar are the worst ,He lives to gain more power and control peoples lives through the monopoly of force that only government has!
That's why he has such a hard on for gun control. Outside of government he couldn't force my 10 year old to do anything!

Again this is how the political class works . Back room deals and last minute B.S. .No wonder so many people in the country don't trust the government or politicians!

[JK-linux]

I think what's next is Minnesota needs to start putting pro gun legislation in the running, every year. Kind of tired of the defensive role, we tried the last couple years, we need to keep trying.

Agreed. We need a select-fire legitimization bill every year until we can reach a "compromise" on suppressors and SBRs where the CLEO "shall" sign off if they can't find dirt on you in 30 days. Seems fair to me.