Why does everyone insist on MN PTC?

[ForeverTwoWheels]

I got a UT carry permit because at the time they were cheaper, recognized in more states, and are even a photo ID. There was just no reason to get Minnesota's extortionately priced laminated piece of paper. I'll have to get a MN before a renew because they cried and threw a fit so now UT won't process out of state renewals without seeing a resident permit, but that's anther story.

Gander Mtn Lakeville already told me I couldn't use UT to purchase, Fleet Farm Lakeville said I could. I don't see why it would matter for a store since the reason MN recognizes it is because they're issued under the same conditions.

But my question is why are so many people unwilling to accept a UT permit, which isn't some obscure document in the carry world, to satisfy the requirement that we place on ourselves, to determine eligibility to purchase?

Just seems a little ridiculous to me.


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[Hmac]

If I'm selling a pistol or "modern sporting rifle", I am on the hook for a felony if the person I'm selling to uses that firearm to commit a felony crime of violence. I am more confident in the person I'm selling to, and perhaps have a better defense, if his local Sheriff has cleared him as not being a prohibited person. I don't know how well a lot of the "prohibited persons" records transfer between states. I suspect that it's not very reliable. If that's true, even if it might be true, I don't want to sell that person a firearm. Right or wrong, I would consider a MN permit to be a more accurate evaluation of the person's eligibility under Minnesota law than a Utah permit.

I can't speak to firearms dealers, but if I had to guess, I'd guess that some or many of them feel the same.

[JohnGageMN]

Probably because Minnesota law can be interpreted to only allow a MN permit to function as a permit to purchase. Here's the applicable statute:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.7131

Subd. 9.Permit to carry.
A valid permit to carry issued pursuant to section 624.714 constitutes a transferee permit for the purposes of this section and section 624.7132.

A permit issued by another state is not issued pursuant to the Minnesota statute, it is issued pursuant to that state's relevant statute. IANAL, but that seems fairly simple and straightforward to me. It's also part of the reason why you should always get a permit from your home state if such a permit can be obtained.

ETA: If Utah issued a permit to purchase do you think a MN gun dealer would accept that if you brought it in? My money says not a chance in hell if they want to stay in business.

[ForeverTwoWheels]

So you folks think Utah issues permits to felons?

Also, you can't be on the hook for any act committed after the fact. Even if we do a deal with MN PTC, bill of sale and all that and I go murder someone you are not liable at all.

[jdege]

Gander Mtn Lakeville already told me I couldn't use UT to purchase, Fleet Farm Lakeville said I could. I don't see why it would matter for a store since the reason MN recognizes it is because they're issued under the same conditions.

Gander Mountain was right, Fleet Farm was wrong.

If you're buying a handgun or an assault weapon [sic] from an FFL, you either have to have a MN permit to purchase, a MN permit to carry, or submit a MN report of transfer to your police chief or sheriff. There are no other options under the statute.

If you're doing a private sale, you either demand the buyer show a MN permit to purchase, a MN permit to carry, or submit a MN report of transfer to the buyer's police chief or sheriff. or you face significant criminal liability if the buyer uses the firearm in a violent crime.

Yes, you can carry on a UT permit. But you can't buy a handgun or assault weapon [sic] on one.

If you object to the cost of a MN PTC, apply for a PTP. They're free.

[Chunkychuck]

The bigger question is, If i can pass the NICS background check why should it matter if i have a PTP, PTC or even be a resident of the state where I am purchasing the firearm when I am purchasing from an FFL?

[Thunder71]

Guilty until proven innocent.

[Hmac]

So you folks think Utah issues permits to felons?

Not knowingly, but I wouldn't be 100% positive that Utah would know if a person had been convicted of a felony in Minnesota.

If you object to the cost of a MN PTC, apply for a PTP. They're free.

Key point right there. And MN PTP is good for a year.

[Squib Joe]

The law requires that a transferee have proof that a background check has been conducted by a Minnesota law enforcement agency ( MN 624.7131 ). This is something that the Utah instructors would seldom bring up when selling their classes.

It matters to the store because, well, they could suddenly find themselves without a license if they did it wrong.

You can get a Permit to Purchase for free from your local PD. It takes about 10 minutes to apply

[jdege]

The bigger question is, If i can pass the NICS background check why should it matter if i have a PTP, PTC or even be a resident of the state where I am purchasing the firearm when I am purchasing from an FFL?

It shouldn't. But under current MN law it does.

[tman]

Probably because Minnesota law can be interpreted to only allow a MN permit to function as a permit to purchase. Here's the applicable statute:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.7131

Subd. 9.Permit to carry.
A valid permit to carry issued pursuant to section 624.714 constitutes a transferee permit for the purposes of this section and section 624.7132.

A permit issued by another state is not issued pursuant to the Minnesota statute.

This.

Any sale by an FFL that doesn't follow the MN law is a crime.

Pretty simple, really.



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[Chunkychuck]

The bigger question is, If i can pass the NICS background check why should it matter if i have a PTP, PTC or even be a resident of the state where I am purchasing the firearm when I am purchasing from an FFL?

It shouldn't. But under current MN law it does.

And that is why any restrictions to our rights need to fought. Because the anti's aren't willing to concede that. If the background check is the gold standard for them, then if a person passes the background check, there shouldn't be a restriction on where they buy. If you asked the anti's would they remove those restrictions, if all sales,( FFL, gun shows, private, and family to family) went through a background check, my guess is the overwhelming response is no. There is no compromise on their part and shouldn't be on ours.

[JustPlainT]

...because it's the law.

Why is this so hard to understand?

[XDM45]

Probably because Minnesota law can be interpreted to only allow a MN permit to function as a permit to purchase. Here's the applicable statute:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.7131

Subd. 9.Permit to carry.
A valid permit to carry issued pursuant to section 624.714 constitutes a transferee permit for the purposes of this section and section 624.7132.

A permit issued by another state is not issued pursuant to the Minnesota statute.

This.

Any sale by an FFL that doesn't follow the MN law is a crime.

Pretty simple, really.

+1.

Meeker county just lowered their PTC I believe. Honestly, I'm not one for wasting money, but a MN PTC in most places is $100 and it's good for 5 years during which time you can both carry and buy pistols. $100 isn't anything really. Heck, that breaks down to $20.00 a year or 0.054 a day for a year. I can drop $100 going out to dinner and a movie. It's just not that expensive for what you get really. Would I like it if PTCs were free? Sure, of course, why not? It's not like they cost $1,000.

[LarryFlew]

Just as a matter of record it is the same for a Minnesota resident that can't buy a handgun in any other state for the same reasons.