More ominous legislation from Colorado

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Re: More ominous legislation from Colorado

Postby goalie on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:29 am

NMRMN wrote:
Haha. You are delusional. YOU want big government: You want government to legally (an in, you know... BY LAW) sanction a novel social contract (that wasn't sanctioned before), and then you want to use tax money to subsidize it. Again, thats the problem with you liberals -- you mistake equality for liberty, and then you want the rest of us to pay for it.

But again, I digress.


Your post would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that you actually believe what you are typing.

1. The USSC might strike down a law, not introduce one. YOU want that law (big government's intrusion into marriage that wasn't there prior) to remain in place. Those pesky facts make your false assertion funny or sad. In your case, sad.

Wow, kinda funny when one is all you need.....
It turns out that what you have is less important than what you do with it.
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Re: More ominous legislation from Colorado

Postby Holland&Holland on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:07 am

NMRMN wrote:Not really a matter of "small government" if you believe the government has any business whatsoever in enforcing contracts... Consider the issue of favorable tax treatment and why it was established, for example, which directly involves the state. I'm not suggesting that I favor the suggestion, rather that there is justifiable precedent, and not just an issue of a meddling government.

Gayle Kesselman wrote:Prior to the adoption of no-fault divorce laws by states, a divorce was processed through an adversarial legal system. This meant that the marital party wanting the divorce had the burden of proving that the breakdown in the marital relationship was the fault of the other marital partner. The bar for grounds for divorce was fairly high and consisted of such things as adultery, abandonment, or felonious behavior by the other marital party. Simply falling out of love did not make the grade. A judge was required to sign off on the divorce decree and it was not unusual for a judge to decide that the grounds for divorce were not met, in which case the parties remained married.

In the America of 2013, as a result of the no-fault divorce laws, heterosexual marriage has become what, among teenagers in the 1950's and 60's, would have been called "going steady." The institution of "going steady" was extremely popular among high school students of those days. It provided teenagers with social companionship and, for some teenagers and to a variable extent, outlets for sexual energy with someone of the opposite sex. However, it was never expected to be a lifetime commitment. It was a relationship which was by definition time limited and dependent on the consent of both parties.

Again, what is "marriage" anyway?


Um, you do realize that THIS thread was about Secret Service expansion of powers not gay marraige right? The gay thing is over in the other thread. Try to keep it straight.
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Re: More ominous legislation from Colorado

Postby jshuberg on Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:08 am

goalie wrote:Answer: because of the hypocritical nature of so many people who pretend to desire "small" government, but who, through their actions, demonstrate that they desire a lot of government that supports their beliefs, and "small" government for the other stuff they don't agree with.

I don't think that's it. Despite all the lip-service given to freedom and liberty, and a government by and of the people, a significant number of people (perhaps even the majority) simply prefer to be ruled rather than represented. I believe that the human condition naturally leans towards a monarchical style of government, and we can see this today with the the likes of the Clintons, Bushes, Kenedys, Pauls, etc. We as a society elect a ruling class that become modern day monarchs, and it becomes incredibly difficult to unseat them, often even under evidence of extreme corruption.

I don't believe that free people are born, but that they are raised. People need to be taught how to be responsible for their own lives and their own safety. They need to be taught to watch their government, and to take corrective action when necessary. This is the main thing that I believe is missing from our education system today, and the result is that people naturally tend to transfer the role their parents held during childhood to their government during adulthood. People naturally gravitate to having a controlling power figure ruling over them, keeping them safe and making the hard decisions for them. The reason that America succeeded so fantastically was that rugged individualism was bred into our children. Adult dependency on a ruling class was shameful, and people were taught how to take responsibility for their own lives.

While people bicker over marriage, the sequester, immigration, whatever the most recent manufactured crisis is, they are ignoring the fact that we have become the very country we fought to free ourselves from not so long ago. The majority of the country is dependent on government for at least some of their basic needs, and a not-insignificant portion is entirely dependent for all of their basic needs. We have almost no liberty left at all - liberty being the absence of government intrusion. Our liberty is gone, our privileges prohibitively restricted, and our rights under constant attack. The people's contract with the government, that the government be constrained to only those powers expressly granted it by the people is all but shredded, the separation of concerns of office types has been eliminated, and even the separation of powers appears to be breaking down with more and more powers being claimed by the executive.

Our problems in this country have absolutely nothing to do with immigration, gay marriage, etc. It's not even economic. It's that we have allowed ourselves to be subjugated by our own government, and had those characteristics necessary for individualism and the maintaining of free state bred out of us. The window to fix this is closing fast, and I worry we'll find ourselves distracted by these manufactured crisis until after it's too late.

End of rant.
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Re: More ominous legislation from Colorado

Postby darkwolf45 on Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:57 am

jshuberg wrote:
goalie wrote:Answer: because of the hypocritical nature of so many people who pretend to desire "small" government, but who, through their actions, demonstrate that they desire a lot of government that supports their beliefs, and "small" government for the other stuff they don't agree with.

I don't think that's it. Despite all the lip-service given to freedom and liberty, and a government by and of the people, a significant number of people (perhaps even the majority) simply prefer to be ruled rather than represented. I believe that the human condition naturally leans towards a monarchical style of government, and we can see this today with the the likes of the Clintons, Bushes, Kenedys, Pauls, etc. We as a society elect a ruling class that become modern day monarchs, and it becomes incredibly difficult to unseat them, often even under evidence of extreme corruption.

I don't believe that free people are born, but that they are raised. People need to be taught how to be responsible for their own lives and their own safety. They need to be taught to watch their government, and to take corrective action when necessary. This is the main thing that I believe is missing from our education system today, and the result is that people naturally tend to transfer the role their parents held during childhood to their government during adulthood. People naturally gravitate to having a controlling power figure ruling over them, keeping them safe and making the hard decisions for them. The reason that America succeeded so fantastically was that rugged individualism was bred into our children. Adult dependency on a ruling class was shameful, and people were taught how to take responsibility for their own lives.

While people bicker over marriage, the sequester, immigration, whatever the most recent manufactured crisis is, they are ignoring the fact that we have become the very country we fought to free ourselves from not so long ago. The majority of the country is dependent on government for at least some of their basic needs, and a not-insignificant portion is entirely dependent for all of their basic needs. We have almost no liberty left at all - liberty being the absence of government intrusion. Our liberty is gone, our privileges prohibitively restricted, and our rights under constant attack. The people's contract with the government, that the government be constrained to only those powers expressly granted it by the people is all but shredded, the separation of concerns of office types has been eliminated, and even the separation of powers appears to be breaking down with more and more powers being claimed by the executive.

Our problems in this country have absolutely nothing to do with immigration, gay marriage, etc. It's not even economic. It's that we have allowed ourselves to be subjugated by our own government, and had those characteristics necessary for individualism and the maintaining of free state bred out of us. The window to fix this is closing fast, and I worry we'll find ourselves distracted by these manufactured crisis until after it's too late.

End of rant.



Very well said, sir. Very well said indeed.
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