A R Rifles Gas or Piston?

[Tronster]

Check the specs page for a BCM A4. They list all the materials and finishes used, design profiles of critical areas, inspections performed, etc. I don't really see what Colt could do that would be above and beyond what BCM does.

http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/specification/bcma4.php

[NMRMN]

They write C-O-L-T and add a wily stallion picture.

[Tronster]

Well heck I'm gonna start making AR's and stamp them with SUPER ULTRA MEGA AWESOME or SUMA for short.

You can shoot at the enemy while saying "You want SUMA dis?"

[Chevydude]

Hey, thanks a bunch Guys. I'm getting good stuff here. You know to me quality is something that has all
the right stuff and a name I recognize and trust. I won't start naming brands but there are some I
just can't stomach. I'm talking LARGE companies with lots of choices. See the thing is I am not
familiar with AR product lines. I think I'll spending north of 1500$ for sure,maybe around 2K.

I used to Deer Hunt with an auto loader Now I shoot a bolt,catch my drift? I'm not expecting to hunt
with my AR though.

I'm hearing words like Forged and Chrome and Full Auto BCG , I'm liking that of talk. Can I get all
the good stuff for less than 3K ? You know I also like the Mapul stock.

Well keep it going its helping!

Chevydude

[Hmac]

For a few hundred dollars more he can get into a no-frills no-nonsense milspec BCM di rifle that he can really run hard, and is on par with a Colt without paying a premium for the Colt name.

Yes. If we're still speaking of value. This would be the maximally cost-efficient route.

I'd agree with that....So how do we know it's on par with a Colt?

Personally, I pay attention to the firearms that my buddies shoot, I listen closely to trainers that I know, have trained with, or whose opinions I've read....guys who shoot a lot, and see many, many people come through their courses with a variety of brands. After awhile, common themes develop and one can build an opinion about the pluses and a minuses of the various brands of AR15s and associated accessories.

[Tronster]

Not to start an all out brand war, but can you tell us what brands or rifle configurations have proven to be the most reliable? And what are some of the most common failure points?

Ive never seen a broken AR, just feed issues or stuck cases.

[yonse]

Assuming that you maintain your guns, I think there are probably many more quality rifles out there than ones that will give you problems with reliability. I have experience with shooting Sabre Defence, DPMS, & Sota AR-15's, and have experienced zero failures at all, even after shooting 300+ rounds between cleaning (with the Sabre Defence). There are a lot of brands that have great reputations (Daniel Defense, LMT, Bushmaster, Armalite, POF, Ruger, LWRC, Stag, RRA, etc...) so maybe the real question to ask is which brands should you avoid. As I have never had any issues with the AR's that I have shot I may not be the best to answer that question but I know that a lot of people have complained about Olympic. They work for a lot people, but I've read enough complaints that I would probably spend a little more to get a different brand. I also avoid Colt since I think they're overpriced & because they're not compatible with any other brand. Again, there are others here who know a lot more than I do, but that's my 2 cents.

[Tronster]

Assuming that you maintain your guns, I think there are probably many more quality rifles out there than ones that will give you problems with reliability.

This is probably true nowadays. About the only way I can see the AR being the cause of unreliability would be a misbuilt/out-of-spec AR. Most of the failures I've seen personally could be attributed to worn out USGI mags or dirty chambers (maintenance).

[Hmac]

Not to start an all out brand war, but can you tell us what brands or rifle configurations have proven to be the most reliable? And what are some of the most common failure points?

Ive never seen a broken AR, just feed issues or stuck cases.

I think the relative merits of the various brands have been hashed out here over and over and is pretty much a pointless exercise. Everybody has their own opinion and such arguments always get diverted by the guys who are emotionally invested in their consumer-grade rifle and repeatedly point out that they have over a thousand rounds through theirs without a hiccup. I respect that. It tells me that they made a good choice in their brand selection that meets their needs and expectations. As has also been pointed out here, different people have different needs and expectations, and their choices may be different.

I've seen broken ARs, but I agree that feed issues and stuck cases are the more common problems in budget-oriented rifles.

[Tronster]

Hey, thanks a bunch Guys. I'm getting good stuff here. You know to me quality is something that has all
the right stuff and a name I recognize and trust. I won't start naming brands but there are some I
just can't stomach. I'm talking LARGE companies with lots of choices. See the thing is I am not
familiar with AR product lines. I think I'll spending north of 1500$ for sure,maybe around 2K.

I used to Deer Hunt with an auto loader Now I shoot a bolt,catch my drift? I'm not expecting to hunt
with my AR though.

I'm hearing words like Forged and Chrome and Full Auto BCG , I'm liking that of talk. Can I get all
the good stuff for less than 3K ? You know I also like the Mapul stock.

Well keep it going its helping!

Chevydude

If your budget is $1500-3000 pretty much any AR in that range is going to be a quality gun with desirable specs. At that point pick a brand you think will have the best customer service or whatever DI/GP system you want and any rails or accessories that suit your fancy.

[Tronster]

Ive never seen a broken AR, just feed issues or stuck cases.

I've seen broken ARs, but I agree that feed issues and stuck cases are the more common problems in budget-oriented rifles.

Just curious what parts are prone to breakage. I've heard the lug next to the extractor can break off after high round counts.

[Snowgun]

Although I don't have any experience running AR's HARD (like in a 3-5000 round before cleaning barrel glowing hot tac course in the dirt type of stuff), I do run a DPMS 308 pretty hard in 3 gun, and it has NEVER failed or Hiccuped on me.

HOWEVER< this is most likely due to the fact that I tinker, hack, add performance parts, and slick up my guns, clean them religiously, etc. I firmly believe that most differences between brands are seen when you take them out of the box and run them hard with no hand finishing. However, if you take the time to polish and hand finish and optimize certain features/issues, you can make a "consumer grade" rifle outperform a custom grade out of the box.

Essentially I believe in Nurture over Nature (to a certain extent) when it comes to mechanical systems.

[Snowgun]

Check the specs page for a BCM A4. They list all the materials and finishes used, design profiles of critical areas, inspections performed, etc. I don't really see what Colt could do that would be above and beyond what BCM does.

http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/specification/bcma4.php

I see a lot of these same specs on the DPMS guns. Just sayin...Not that I believe they are better, just that the specs listed don't really convince me. I'd honestly go more by what HMAC mentioned regarding word of mouth and representation by proven trainers, subjective as that is...

Not trying to poo poo BCM, just trying to challenge the notion of why we think something is better than something else when there is little to no empirical evidence to support it. If heffy was here he would shout Heuristic Bias. (well maybe just bias, I added the Heuristic)

[Tronster]

Yea I can see how first hand experience with different brands can better solidify what works well vs speculation about it's quality. I don't doubt a DPMS can be a great rifle and run reliably, especially when someone takes the time to maintain it and fine tune it with a few selective performance parts. They've been making AR's for quite a while now.

It's like having personal experience with a piston drive AR. During my research on GP drives I heard all sorts of things on multiple gun boards. Things like poor accuracy, buffer tube wear, excessive recoil, unbalanced and front heavy. I decided to try the GP anyway and my personal experience has been none of that. I wouldn't mind a 20" DI gun as well, but I'm more than happy with the performance from the Huldra.

[Snowgun]

It's like having personal experience with a piston drive AR. During my research on GP drives I heard all sorts of things on multiple gun boards. Things like poor accuracy, buffer tube wear, excessive recoil, unbalanced and front heavy. I decided to try the GP anyway and my personal experience has been none of that. I wouldn't mind a 20" DI gun as well, but I'm more than happy with the performance from the Huldra.

Great example, i feel that much of the GP hate is due to the "di was good enough for grandpa" type of mentality. Hating on the new kid, etc. however i still believe due to theory and other commercial evidence that GP lags in accuracy, but by how much and direct evidence can only shown by someone like JP.

That being said, who knows what the future will hold...