OGC Members: This is what you're going to get!!

[Erud]

Just my opinions. If you guys only wanted feedback from club members, you probably should have just put it on the OGC website...

You obviously did let your membership lapse. If you were a current member you would have received the written communications on this.

Yeah, I thought I had made that clear.

[Holland&Holland]

Just my opinions. If you guys only wanted feedback from club members, you probably should have just put it on the OGC website...

You obviously did let your membership lapse. If you were a current member you would have received the written communications on this.

Yeah, I thought I had made that clear.

My point is why put it on the OGC website if they are communicating directly to their members? So you can comment? back at ya.

[Erud]

My point is why put it on the OGC website if they are communicating directly to their members? So you can comment? back at ya.

Touchè.

[mc762x54R]

Sam,

What will the shooting distance be on the short range after its done?

[Lights]

Sam,

What will the shooting distance be on the short range after its done?

Hopefully we can have it out to 20-25 yrds with movable target holders.

Mark

[Dave]

While I'm not going to argue about the need for these improvements, The possibility of a round hitting a house, or even landing on private, or high use public property is pretty slim, giv en the orientation of the ranges, and the proximity of the park reserve.

Unlikely is not good enough. It needs to be impossible. Just look at what happened in St Cloud if you think that is a fight that can be beaten in court, even with FBI forensics backing up the range. Like most court battles, it will become a money pissing contest, and the club is no match for a large scale developer, the state/county, or even a wealthy homeowner.

[Seismic Sam]

Sam,

What will the shooting distance be on the short range after its done?

Hopefully we can have it out to 20-25 yrds with movable target holders.

Mark

Uhh, say what?? The current short range is 10 yards (30 feet), and we're working on movable target holders so you can shoot at 21 feet or 30 feet from the fixed line.

Where did this request come from for LENGTHENING the short range to 2x to 2.5X of it current length, seeing as the 25 yard range is about 20 steps away from the short range and has movable benches so you can shoot any distance you want if you're alone?? What is the rationale behind having TWO 25 yard ranges right next to each other?? Please clarify, because I'm confused??

[xd ED]

While I'm not going to argue about the need for these improvements, The possibility of a round hitting a house, or even landing on private, or high use public property is pretty slim, giv en the orientation of the ranges, and the proximity of the park reserve.

Unlikely is not good enough. It needs to be impossible. Just look at what happened in St Cloud if you think that is a fight that can be beaten in court, even with FBI forensics backing up the range. Like most court battles, it will become a money pissing contest, and the club is no match for a large scale developer, the state/county, or even a wealthy homeowner.

I fully believe the planned construction will make the range safer from errant rounds leaving the premises.
But if you want IMPOSSIBLE, you, and your guns should probably stay under the bed.

[bstrawse]

Sam,

What will the shooting distance be on the short range after its done?

Hopefully we can have it out to 20-25 yrds with movable target holders.

Mark

Are you thinking of the 25 yard range? The short range is the 7-10 yard pistol range that is only open to members. It will stay a 7-10 yard pistol range.

Bryan

[bstrawse]

If "no blue sky" is the criteria, how could a club with firing lines beyond short range be able to meet these standards? It seems that there would be a lot of sky to cover if shooting from prone at 600 or 1000 yards. What, if any are the penalties for not meeting these standards?

I am genuinely curious, as I am a member of other clubs and would suspect that if this is a requirement now, it will affect every other club out there. Unfortunately, I suspect that OGC is probably the only club that would be able to undertake a project like this due to the financial aspect of it.

It's not a penalty so much as when something becomes an issue it puts the club in an extremely difficult legal position to fight a potential closure or other sanction. The MN Range Protection Act (MN Statutes - Chapter 87A and the associated regulation) spells this out pretty clearly.

We have identified risks that need to be mitigated - and that's what the construction project is intended to do. A side benefit to this is that we're getting a *real* short range (finally!) that can accomodate the needs of our members.
b

[bstrawse]

I've never met Sam, but I'm very grateful for the work he and Bstrawse have done on this.

Thanks for the kind words -
b

[bstrawse]

[I should think this one incident is proof that there's practically zero risk of serious injury?! Sure, he could sue! ... I could see it in court, now! ... "Dr., how life-threatening were his injuries?!" ... "well, we thought about putting on a band-aid ... but we didn't have a Smurf one, and he refused anything else!

Or the City of Lake Elmo could modify or revoke our Conditional Use Permit, or the county could step in, or a neighbor could sue (as has happened).

Without having a risk mitigation plan defined and our roadmap in place to get to a point of compliance, we would not be able to fight such an action.

I was a member at OGC almost 20yr ago ... seen more than a few board members come 'n go ... a few exceptions aside, it's not unlike yer average politician ... "I was elected ... I must be important ... I should do SOMETHING!"

You may recall that Sam and I ran for the board specifically because of our concerns with the previous board's handling of this issue and the lack of transparency around this project. We've done exactly what we've said we were going to do.

We'll see how long even they get by, without the same setup on the Comp, 50yd, and 200yd! ... let alone, how long "matches" are allowed, without such "standards", in play! ... I guarantee ya two things ... 1. the BOD will have different members, years from now ... 2. whomever that ends up bein', they will have to do "something"!

You've stated a couple different times, in a couple different ways, that the board is out to shut down matches, or that there would be an end to matches at some point (as you do above). This couldn't be farther from the truth.

This design was specifically created in a way so that we can continue with all of our current matches - including the Glock Match, USPSA, and other future matches where the firing line may be out from under the baffles/barriers. We've had long discussions - in open board meetings - and in the member meeting where this project was approved - around the need to ensure that this project would not impede on our ability to hold those sorts of matches.

Despite what I've heard from others prior to joining the board, I've *not once* seen an attempt by any board member to shut down those sorts of matches - or prohibit them from using the range. The club has a long history of supporting the shooting sports - and I intend to see that such support continues.

Bryan

[bstrawse]

While I'm not going to argue about the need for these improvements, The possibility of a round hitting a house, or even landing on private, or high use public property is pretty slim, giv en the orientation of the ranges, and the proximity of the park reserve.

Unlikely is not good enough. It needs to be impossible. Just look at what happened in St Cloud if you think that is a fight that can be beaten in court, even with FBI forensics backing up the range. Like most court battles, it will become a money pissing contest, and the club is no match for a large scale developer, the state/county, or even a wealthy homeowner.

I assume you're referencing Del-Tone-Luth?

Great example of a club that was operating outside of their conditional use permit and did not meet current NRA range standards. They were fortunate that things worked out as well as they did in their case.

[rugersol]

... when's the points match?!

[Lights]

Sam,

What will the shooting distance be on the short range after its done?

Hopefully we can have it out to 20-25 yrds with movable target holders.

Mark

Uhh, say what?? The current short range is 10 yards (30 feet), and we're working on movable target holders so you can shoot at 21 feet or 30 feet from the fixed line.

Where did this request come from for LENGTHENING the short range to 2x to 2.5X of it current length, seeing as the 25 yard range is about 20 steps away from the short range and has movable benches so you can shoot any distance you want if you're alone?? What is the rationale behind having TWO 25 yard ranges right next to each other?? Please clarify, because I'm confused??

Forget my thoughts. I was just thinking out loud. I was only thinking that the short range could be a true bonified pistol range. I myself do not like shooting my pistols that close. Yes I can walk a bench up closer "if" there are not others shooting on it. Not trying to ruffle any feathers your plan is great Sam.