This is not black and white, noob post

[MarkL]

Ok, so I'm at least a week away from even setting up my new press, but my bullets arrived today and I suddenly got this feeling of 'oh crap, I ordered the wrong stuff'.
I will be reloading for .45 acp, I ordered from Cabela's, 500 Berrys 45 Cal 230gr RN plated bullets. I didn't notice anything at the time and didn't anything on Berry's website for 45 acp, so I figured this was the right stuff. However on the boxes today I see 45 Cal 230gr RN (.452). The .452 is what got me startled, I thought lead cast bullets were .452 and fmj are .451. I know splitting hairs here, but I'm a noob at this and looking at the details, this didn't look right.

I looked up in my Lymans book and considerable Googling, I seem to find that I indeed ordered a suitable bullet that will work. Right???

Just trying to make sure I'm reading the correct information to avoid any nasty mistakes. Now I have to figure out what recipe to use, I have a choice of Bullseye and WIn 231 at my disposal, but nothing in the book for a plated Berry. Interestingly enough, I found several posts that contradict each other, one said use the lower to mid range for fmj and a few other posts said use lead data! Apparently Berry's site says to use the fmj data, but I have not yet confirmed that, so something that I already knew, is just because you found it on the internet doesn't mean it's true. So I have some more research to do, but reinforces do your own homework as even a keystroke typo by someone could put you in harms way.

[BigDog58]

Ok, so I'm at least a week away from even setting up my new press, but my bullets arrived today and I suddenly got this feeling of 'oh crap, I ordered the wrong stuff'.
I will be reloading for .45 acp, I ordered from Cabela's, 500 Berrys 45 Cal 230gr RN plated bullets. I didn't notice anything at the time and didn't anything on Berry's website for 45 acp, so I figured this was the right stuff. However on the boxes today I see 45 Cal 230gr RN (.452). The .452 is what got me startled, I thought lead cast bullets were .452 and fmj are .451. I know splitting hairs here, but I'm a noob at this and looking at the details, this didn't look right.

I looked up in my Lymans book and considerable Googling, I seem to find that I indeed ordered a suitable bullet that will work. Right???

Just trying to make sure I'm reading the correct information to avoid any nasty mistakes. Now I have to figure out what recipe to use, I have a choice of Bullseye and WIn 231 at my disposal, but nothing in the book for a plated Berry. Interestingly enough, I found several posts that contradict each other, one said use the lower to mid range for fmj and a few other posts said use lead data! Apparently Berry's site says to use the fmj data, but I have not yet confirmed that, so something that I already knew, is just because you found it on the internet doesn't mean it's true. So I have some more research to do, but reinforces do your own homework as even a keystroke typo by someone could put you in harms way.

Good News, You Done GOOD! You have the correct bullets. If you are new to reloading , I highly suggest you contact OldmanFCSA and see about getting some instructions from him, or at least with another experienced reloader, before you set off into the wonderful world of Hand Loading.The time you spend heim will be well worth it.

If I can ever help you, don't hesitate to PM me. Before anything else, you MUST take time to RTFM (Read The Eff'n Manual) BEFORE you do ANYTHING else related to reloading. My philosophy is that the only stupid question , ONE you DON'T ask! You can get severely injured even killed or worse, harm someone else, if you go off half cocked or get too confident. Just be careful, attentive to what you are doing and have a great time.

[LarryFlew]

Berry's also suggests lead data. In reality it will be between the 2. Like high end lead or low end jacket.

If you do thier HBRN 9 it loads same as jacket due to the heavy plating.

[slo squeezin]

Take a couple of deep breaths, hold for a second or two, let it out easy. As the guys said, read your manual several times, think thru the steps before you do them, then try it to see how it works. You have an advantage some of us never thought of, almost unlimited advice from experienced reloaders at your finger tips. Some of us started reloading before there were fax machines, I had no family or friends to help. Still managed to get into it and had fun.
You have the right bullets, be aware 45 cal could also mean bullets for the 45/70, which are .457 or .458. 231 is a great powder for almost any handgun cartridge I can think of, 9, 40, 45, or any of the common pistol cartridges. Cleaner burning than Bullseye for sure.
Manuals frequently differ when quoting load levels; two of the same model handgun can produce slightly different pressures leading to different load levels. As you get deeper into this, a chronograph is a great tool to help you recognize when you are getting close to the upper limit for YOUR gun. This level will be close to but not necessarily be exactly what Speer, Hornady, Nosler, etc. said it would be.
Start slow, reread, ask questions. The biggest danger I can think of is that you can double / triple charge fast burning powders ( as in Bullseye, 231Win ) in many handgun cartridges. Always check that powder level before putting a bullet on the case. Should help keep you from having an, "oh sh**" moment that will keep you "regular" for a long time.
Keep asking questions, take advantage of the help offered on this site. If you can chew gum and work a keyboard at the same time, you can do this. And keep us posted on your progress. Good luck, its a fun, interesting, challenging hobby.

[Synergy]

I've never used Berry's but was told to load them just like cast lead, the plating is very thin and will make seating the bullet a little easier than cast lead and you don't have to flare the mouth as much.

Use load data for cast lead.

[westhope]

With any copper plated bullets (Berry, Rainier), do not use too much crimp. If the plated bullets are crimped too much, it will cut the plating and the plating may separate from the lead core when fired affecting accuracy.

I've used Berry 200 gr SWC 45 ACP for years. Good bullet.

[BigDog58]

I've never used Berry's but was told to load them just like cast lead, the plating is very thin and will make seating the bullet a little easier than cast lead and you don't have to flare the mouth as much.

Use load data for cast lead.

Berry's recommends loads Less than 1250 fps on their bullets, Except the Thick Plated which I believe goes to 1500 fps (check their website to verify... ALWAYS VERIFY EVERYTHING you read on ANY Forum)

[Seismic Sam]

EXCELLENT n00b post!! I wish there were more like you...

44 mag was even more confusing, with jacketed bullets being sold that were .429" and .430". Bottom line, when you put either on top of 24.0 grains of H110, that .001" isn't going to make diddly squat worth of difference once the pressure starts to build. For a second when I was reading your post I thought maybe you had bought bullets for the 45 Long Colt, which DOES have a different diameter of .454" - .455", but you didn't.

Just to give you an idea of what difference .001" of bullet diameter does make, I conducted a rather unique experiment of testing .355" (9mm) .356" (38 Super), and .357" (357 Mag) in the same gun, which was an EAA 38 Super Match, and it should be noted that this gun has POLYGONAL rifling. The results with standard rifling could be different. Did the same 3 strings of 5 shots each at 10 powder weights .1 grain apart (and individually weighed!!) from 6.5 to 7.4 grains of Power Pistol, The 9mm and 357 bullets (and you should NEVER interchange or confuse these two!!) were 125 grain Gold Dots, while the 38 Super was a 130 grain FMJ flat point. As you can see from the data, nothing catastrophic happens as you go from .355" to .357". The .356" data could be lower due to bullet weight or construction, and obviously the velocity and pressure go up a bit as you go from .355" to .357". If the top of this powder range were balls-to-the-wall max then you could see something disastrous happening, which is why I chose this range. All of this is a bit advanced for your question, but I thought I might as well post this here because you'll never see this test in any manual or reloading source I've ever seen. As long as you continue to exercise the current level of caution and ask questions first that are well thought out and stated, you'll always do fine.



Oh - one other thing, seeing as plated bullets all pretty much say to use cast bullet data: The best source for jacketed and cast bullet data is the Lyman PISTOL manual, not to be confused with Lyman #49 manual!!

I only come out from under my bridge when we get a n00b in here who says he's bought EVERYTHING and is set up and ready to go, and just needs data for the 40 S&W, which means he was too cheap to buy at least one manual and/or too lazy to read it. Then I have to crawl out from under my bridge and read that n00b the riot act. This always draws a crowd, who enjoy the spectacle, which is similar to the Roman Gladitorial games...

[MarkL]

Thanks guys! We do get wiser with age or at least I hope so and smart enough to know that what I don't know can hurt me with this if I were to proceed without obtaining the knowledge from the many sources that be. My post was to point out my findings though simplistic as buying bullets and find a starting recipe from the books as it might seem, defintely has gray areas for those like me that have not done this before. As I progress, I'll post other questions and observations from a noob's point of view on starting out with this hobby. Maybe it will aid the next noob as well. Now off to start remodeling my gun reloading room and office so I can move to the next step of assembly and setup.

[noylj]

There should be a large statement in all reloading manuals:
Jacketed bullets are safe up to 0.002" over actual groove diameter of barrel--if you work up your load.
Plated and cast/swaged lead bullets must be at least 0.001" over groove diameter for best performance, and may be up to 0.003" over groove diameter.
If you don't know the groove diameter of your barrel, you may never get the most out of your gun.
Always start loading at the lowest starting load you can find and do not assume that what we got from our barrel and specific lots of components has any relationship to what you will get.
For your piece of mind, set your caliper/micrometer for 0.001" and dispense 0.1gn of powder and see just how insignificant each is.

It was easier in the past. Reloaders did not go in thinking that the gun, bullet, and powder people were gods, so they knew that there were going to be lots of tolerances that had to be considered.
Go back 20 years, and you would almost NEVER see a COL listed. COL was understood as being the reloaders responsibility. We knew that was no hand-holding and our loads were our responsibility.
Back when I started about 40 years ago, the first thing every reloader did was slug their barrel so they KNEW where they were. At that time, due to bullet availability (or lack thereof for some cartridges), there were many of us using 0.312" bullets in 0.308" barrels and 0.357" jacketed and 0.358" lead bullets in nominal 0.355" barrels. We were practically beat over the head with starting low and working up and never considered manual data to be any thing other than a rough guideline.

[173rdABN]

I'm running 5.8gr unique with berry's plated and its perfect in my glock 21 and sig 1911 tac ops.

FWIW I crimp with a lee factory crimp die pretty heavy to help with throat issues in the 1911

[MarkL]

So I got my room remodeled, carpeting gone, repainted, strong mounted my 550B to the counter and proceeded to setup my dies for 45acp. Have a couple questions regarding stations 3 and 4.

Station 1 - I grabbed a casing and ran it through the decapping/resizing die while adjusting it, this one is pretty simple.

Station 2 - Did not install a primer and moved to the bell/powder load station. Adjusted to bell enough to set a bullet, no powder set/used at this stage.

Station 3 - Not 100% sure here. Still looking for load data and will acquire the Lyman's Pistol Revolver reloading book, but looking at what I have found so far using Berry's plated bullet 230gr RN and either Bullseye or Win 231, the OAL is specified at 1.2 But the max is 1.275 and measuring OAL of several different factory rounds I'm coming up with 1.260 - 1.270 Should I just go with the 1.26? That length seems to work fine so far in my TRP, but I know the data says 1.2, not a huge difference, but is it a matter of setting some at that and see what happens or go with the length that seems to work well currently? From what I've read so far, decreasing the OAL increases the pressure and allows the bullet to gain momentum before entering the rifling and depending on what you read and who wrote it improves accuracy.

Station 4 - Taper crimp, not a 100% sure on this, maybe I'm ok. Set it enough where the bell is gone but the round would not go all the way in the gauge to check it. About 1/8" stuck out, measuring and sorry, didn't write it down, but I was .002-.003 larger near the base of the round where I thought I would find it consistent throughout the length. Resizing die goes the full length of the round. Not knowing what to do next for sure or why I was getting this, I starting setting the taper crimp die lower. After a few adjustments, the round now drops right into the gauge and no visible 'biting' into the bullet, so am I good to go? Does this sound right?

[Tubguy]

Your set up sounds fine as I have a 550B

As a noob, I called the powder manufacture because I did not fine plated bullet data. They had the specs. I just felt more comfortable being they already worked up the load.

[slo squeezin]

MarkL, on station #3, try it as it is. If you are closer to the short end try it in YOUR gun. If the TRP likes it, you are good. Also try something closer to the long end of the range and see if YOUR gun still feeds well; then you know what your OAL limits are. Not all 1911's are equal, depends on how close to "mil spec" the piece was fitted, some are more forgiving than others and still work without problems. Changing bullet profile ( RN, SWC, TC ) may require you change the length to feed YOUR gun without jams.
On station #4, measure the diameter of the case at the mouth. Should be .470" or very close. If your loaded round stops 1/8" before fitting, you may not have taken out all of the bell. The mouth is more likely to be the cause of the problem than the base. Shooting brass that has previously been used in a Glock ( chambers are supposed to be on the "generous" side ) could cause a problem, but they have not been a problem for me if fully sized. I've loaded for Rugers, Sigs, Glocks and several brands of 1911, sometimes the less popular brands or aftermarket barrels require a bit more work to feed right.
I have used the SDB a long time, best $ I've spent on reloading equipment.
Keep us informed of your progress.

[MarkL]

Measured from the mouth to the base and have .470

I think my main concern was reading where you don't want to over crimp and having never done this, I was apprehensive about cranking the crimp die down to much, but looks like I may be in the sweet spot? Mainly wanted to confirm that I'm getting this setup correctly.