This is not black and white, noob post

[Seismic Sam]

If I were you, I would call up OldmanFCSA and schedule a trip to Osceola no matter where you live to get some training on a Dillon from him. You are a n00b diving into the deep end of the pool with a machine which is going to be doing 4 things at once, and you do not have YEARS of background doing every step on a single station or turret press, so that you know EVERY SINGLE MOVE involved in loading 100.000% safe ammo, and the very real danger you are facing is that something will slip past you because you are NOT used to checking everything out one step at a time. The general concensus in here is if you start out with a Dillon, find tutor who has owned m one and can show you the ropes.

The very real threat you will be facing is the dreaded double charge of a small amount of fast burning powder like Titegroup, Bullseye, or 231, and all three of these are very good powders to use for 45 ACP (and cheap, too!!) so avoiding them isn't the correct response. Something on the machine will jam, you will get distracted, have to manually cycle the system somehow to clear the problem, and somewhere in there you will wind up with a double charge of fast burning powder that WILl blow your 45 apart, and there are no ifs, ands or buts on this. Double charge of fast burning powder equals a KABLOOEY.

So get some training from Oldman on how to use a Dillon safely, or pay the price later... And yes, we have had MULTIPLE people in here ruin 45's with a double charge of powder. (And some 9mm's and 40's too!!)

[MarkL]

Would love to go see him, however he mentioned that he's having some health issues right now, so that may be out the window temporarily until he posts that he's ok to have some company. I live near Forest Lake, so not much of a trip to go visit.

Nothing says I have to do more than 1 round on a complete cycle until I am comfortable and confident in what I am doing with this machine. I appreciate and respect the concern, if I didn't I probably could have had rounds loaded over a week ago. I'm not about to load and fire a single round until I'm 100% sure I have my ducks in a row and each station setup correctly and confident in loading rounds 1 at a time and handle any technical issues that should show up.

[Seismic Sam]

Well, that approach will work AS LONG AS you actually look at each step happening to each round. The remaining problem is that you still have a machine that will merrily move the case from one station to the next, and perform the sequential steps, which can (and probably will at some point) lull you into a sense of complacency where you don't feel you FULL attention is required.

With me, it's been take the cartridge, put it in the holder, full length resize and decap it, and then rotate the turret one notch to bell the case if you're shooting lead bullets, and repeat. It's pretty routine, and not much happens. I charge 50 cases in a block by measuring out powder with my measure set to an average of +/ .01 grains, and then look at all 50 cases under a light directly overhead to make sure they're all the same level. This is where you CYA in reloading and you pay EFFEN attention, because if your powder measure hiccupped or you double dipped somehow, THIS is where you catch it.

Then you take the charged cases and put them back in the press, and seta the bullets and then rotate the turret and crimp, and provided you know what you're doing and your dies are set dead nuts correctly and you know that for a fact and have checked out the settings beforehand, this is also pretty much routine.

There's a BIG difference between doing that and rather leisurely watching the cases go by in a Dillon. In particular, the powder checking step. You can't tell if you got a goober in the powder and the load is an almost squib that will cycle the gun but leave the bullet in the barrel or not. As long it covers the bottom of the case and is level, good luck on telling the depth of that case from the one before or after it.

Now, for veteran reloaders who have been doing this for years, it's a whole different ballgame because they know how to CYA in all the steps and what they are in their sleep, and they can set their dies dead nuts right on the first try. Dillons are great tools for cranking out good ammo faster, and for them there's no big risk. But they're NOT trying to learn anything, while you ARE. BIG difference in what you and they are paying attention to.

Oldman's health varies with the weather like mine does, so give him a call.

Oh, and to get an AVERAGE weight accurate to .01 grains, you set the measure, throw 10 charges, and weigh all 10. The total weight will be 10 times the weight of an individual load, so you move the decimal point one place to the left for one load, and you wind up with a weight like 4.62 grains for a single charge. If you want 4.60 dead on, you will have to do a very minor tweak to your powder measure to drop those extra .02 grains. If you're doing max loads, you HAVE to weigh EVERY charge, so this method won't work!!

[MarkL]

So I've been looking for hours for load data for 230grn lrn using Bullseye and can find nothing even on Alliants website.
Berry's states to target the start for LRN and stop at the mid point for FMJ for a 230gr. I even called them today and they won't provide any load info for fear of liability.

Looking locally for a recommended Lyman's Pistol Revolver handbook, if I can't locate one, I'll have to order it online.

So what I could find was this:
Win231, Start load: 4.3gr Max: 5.3
(with the Max being the same for FMJ on http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp )

Based on this for W231 I would say one could start with 4.3 and step up to 4.8

I can find nothing along with a lot of other posts regarding Bullseye other than the majority of posts seem to have 5gr as the magic number. I found a lot of posts where most start at 4.2 and step up, most with lower encountered feed issues.
I would prefer to use the Bullseye on my 45 loads and would deduce that I could start with 5 or 10 rounds at 4.2gr, OAL: 1.265

Meanwhile, looking for input from the pro's if 4.2gr is an acceptable starting point with Bullseye. I believe I can see where I need to purchase a chronograph to progress with loads to assist with staying safe.

[rtwills]

So I've been looking for hours for load data for 230grn lrn using Bullseye and can find nothing even on Alliants website.
Berry's states to target the start for LRN and stop at the mid point for FMJ for a 230gr. I even called them today and they won't provide any load info for fear of liability.

Looking locally for a recommended Lyman's Pistol Revolver handbook, if I can't locate one, I'll have to order it online.

So what I could find was this:
Win231, Start load: 4.3gr Max: 5.3
(with the Max being the same for FMJ on http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp )

Based on this for W231 I would say one could start with 4.3 and step up to 4.8

I can find nothing along with a lot of other posts regarding Bullseye other than the majority of posts seem to have 5gr as the magic number. I found a lot of posts where most start at 4.2 and step up, most with lower encountered feed issues.
I would prefer to use the Bullseye on my 45 loads and would deduce that I could start with 5 or 10 rounds at 4.2gr, OAL: 1.265
Meanwhile, looking for input from the pro's if 4.2gr is an acceptable starting point with Bullseye. I believe I can see where I need to purchase a chronograph to progress with loads to assist with staying safe.

Alliants new book,guide 2013 lists a 230g speer tmj rn, bullseye, cci300, 1.260 5.7g, 840 fps

[rtwills]

[rtwills]

BTW, Scheels in St Cloud has the new Alliant loading books available for free.

[MarkL]

So I'm assuming 5.7 is the Max? Not familiar with the book and can't see the column header.
Also, using Winchester Large Pistol primers

So maybe 4.5 is a ok starting point or start with 4.2 and increment .2 ?

I appreciate the info, might be able to stop at Scheels this weekend, I'll be in Princeton, so pretty close.

[rtwills]

you are correct, the book posts max loads

[MarkL]

Well, I loaded up the powder tonight and adjusted for 4.5gr, cycled thru about 8 times and measure repeating this several times until I felt it was good to go.
Then weighed 10 measures together expecting to see 45gr, but got 45.8gr. Pretty close, but not precise! Adjusted and repeated until I got it to ring up 45.0gr on the nuts.
Then went back and randomly weighed several individual measures and got 4.5gr. Got look straight on, on these beam scales or it can mess you up.

Seated and crimped another bullet and then checked for fit and finish and then pulled the bullet. As these are Berry's plated, I wanted to see if I was over crimping. There's a slight indentation but no cracking, chipping etc to the plating. I'm literally guessing here that this is good to go on the crimping.

So with all the prep out of the way, I think I'm ready to load 10 rounds of this setup and see what I get. Yes, I will be doing 1 round at a time to make sure each station processes correctly. I'm new and the machine is new, think I'll walk and run later. I did observe that It is pretty obvious on a double charge of powder, plan on having one normal charged case off to the side for comparison, but it fills 3/4 of the case on a double.

[MarkL]

First 10 rounds loaded up with no mishaps. Winchester Case (new), Winchester Primers, Berry's Plated 45 230grn RN charged with Bullseye 4.5gr
Did 1 round at a time on the press (550b), rounds measured out at 1.265 and checked with the case gauge. First primer was a little stubborn or I was cautious pressing it in. Only 1 round wouldn't drop in the case gauge all the way, found the very bottom rim of the case was .002 over. Hit it with some sandpaper and drops right in now.

Next phase will be to shoot them off, but think I want to pick up a chronograph first to see what I get. Otherwise just wandering in the dark. Am I done buying stuff yet?

[BBeckwith]

Only 1 round wouldn't drop in the case gauge all the way, found the very bottom rim of the case was .002 over. Hit it with some sandpaper and drops right in now.

So wanting to read hit it with a hammer

Next phase will be to shoot them off, but think I want to pick up a chronograph first to see what I get. Otherwise just wandering in the dark. Am I done buying stuff yet?

Nope never done buying



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[Seismic Sam]

First 10 rounds loaded up with no mishaps. Winchester Case (new), Winchester Primers, Berry's Plated 45 230grn RN charged with Bullseye 4.5gr
Did 1 round at a time on the press (550b), rounds measured out at 1.265 and checked with the case gauge. First primer was a little stubborn or I was cautious pressing it in. Only 1 round wouldn't drop in the case gauge all the way, found the very bottom rim of the case was .002 over. Hit it with some sandpaper and drops right in now.

Next phase will be to shoot them off, but think I want to pick up a chronograph first to see what I get. Otherwise just wandering in the dark. Am I done buying stuff yet?

Chronos can be pricey, but you're to be congratulated for realizing that without one, all you're really doing is pissing in the dark as far as what the load is actually doing. If it works, which I think that it will, then you know that, but that's all you'll ever know about that load and you can't go up or down from there and learn any more than that.

I will be back in town next Monday, and if you live anywhere near Oakdale you can come out and use my Millenium II if you want to find out WTF is going on for real.

[MarkL]

I will be back in town next Monday, and if you live anywhere near Oakdale you can come out and use my Millenium II if you want to find out WTF is going on for real.

Thanks, I'm not but 25 minutes from Oakdale, but I'm more afraid of putting a round thru your unit (the Millenium ).

Two units seem to stand out, the ProChrono isn't that much and on the Midway website seems to have good reviews, though I like the features of the Millenium, which one?

[MarkL]

Only 1 round wouldn't drop in the case gauge all the way, found the very bottom rim of the case was .002 over. Hit it with some sandpaper and drops right in now.

So wanting to read hit it with a hammer

hehehe! I'm a noob, but not stupid! Maybe on a empty case?

Actually that triggered a memory! I was about 15-16 and always was curious about how much punch did those primers have? So I happened to find one of dad's 12 gauge shells, opened it up removed the shot, wadding and powder (see even then I wasn't too stupid! ?) clamped the shell in the shop vise, took a 8 penny nail, lined it up and smacked it with the hammer. Now it didn't blow out of the vise or anything, but it may have been loud enough to scare the crap out of me, where I gained a little more respect for the primers.