This is not black and white, noob post

[Seismic Sam]

I will be back in town next Monday, and if you live anywhere near Oakdale you can come out and use my Millenium II if you want to find out WTF is going on for real.

Thanks, I'm not but 25 minutes from Oakdale, but I'm more afraid of putting a round thru your unit (the Millenium ).

Two units seem to stand out, the ProChrono isn't that much and on the Midway website seems to have good reviews, though I like the features of the Millenium, which one?

The "triangle" formed by the two side supports and the skyscreen of the Millenium is about 4 times the area of a chrony, and all you can kill on a Millenium is a skyscreen or a sensor. All the electronics and all the cool features and automatic stats are sitting on your shooting bench with you in a keypad unit with display. You might as well post your general whereabouts and see if there's someone out there with a Millenium near you.

[MarkL]

Yea, I liked that about the Millenium in regards to the electronics etc up by the shooter. Guess I should put in my order with Midway.
I'm up in the Centerville/Hugo area. I think the closest outdoor range for where I am is the Bald Eagle Gun Club, been wanting to check it out on a Saturday, but so many things going on lately. I can always drive up to my brothers and shoot at their place as well.

[JJ]

My Millenium actually read better after I shot the sensors.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=31520&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=shippy+chrono

[Seismic Sam]

My Millenium actually read better after I shot the sensors.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=31520&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=shippy+chrono

While it sounds odd, I think I know the reason for that. I had a Millenium I with just the plain skyscreens, and at a certain point in the afternoon at Oakdale it would go wonky, and then just plain die. WTF?? I attributed to the sloping angle of the sun, and somehow at the right angle very little of the sunlight was getting through the slit from the top down to pick up the shadow of the bullet, and when you shot yours you opened up the slit in the top a LOT wider so more sunlight could get in and the sensor could see the shadow of the bullet.

[OldmanFCSA]

Sorry guys for not being here much or being available for help.

Between the wife's chemo treatments for cancer, and my mess with a totally blocked left leg artery that Doctors have now given up on due to my body rejecting the stents, life's been a bitch for us - so seeing guests is difficult with each of our needs.(http://www.bing.com/search?q=How+to+Gro ... FORM=QSRE4)

Wish I could help more but just getting my own stuff done is very difficult. I need 120+ rounds of target 50BMG loaded next week using IK-98 match prepped cases, CCI#35 primers, 238 grains of V.V.20N29 powder, and 808 grain solid turned brass projectiles. All components need weighing for best grouping. 50BMG FCSA World Championship in Raton, NM, at the NRA Whittington Center July 5th, 6th, & 7th. My new barrel is allowing me to shoot consistent 10 inch groups at 1000 yards, with several in the 8 inch range, and one even less. That was with zero break-in, so hopefully will shoot better yet on next outing.

Barrel cleans up with 4 patches and shows no copper fouling, even with 33% aqueous ammonia used for cleaning. NICE barrel = Feddersen 8 land 1:15 inch twist 34 inches long. Powder fouling cleans up easily too, nice barrel, very nice finish inside. Did my own gunsmithing work to replace and upgrade my AR-50 barrel. 60 inch LeBlond toolroom lathe and 49 inch Bridgeport are fun shop toys.

My daughter is driving me to Raton, and family will help with wife while I am gone to Match.

[MarkL]

Apologies not necessary, sorry to hear that the medical outlook isn't what one would hope for. Please take care of yourselves the best you can and I hope it turns out for the better, any advice you offer here when you can will definitely be sufficient from you and appreciated. So far everyone has helped me with the knowledge to get my first 10 candidate rounds loaded without killing or injuring myself yet.

I hope that someday we can meet and check out this beauty of yours.

[OldmanFCSA]

Wait until July 10th or so, then come over.

Bring lots of cash - I'm selling out of most of my components.
And other reloading stuff also.

Without your health, hobbies are no longer fun.

[DoxaPar]

I'm sorry to hear that Oldman. Hoping and praying for a full recovery for you.

[BigDog58]

[quote="OldmanFCSA"]Sorry guys for not being here much or being available for help.

Between the wife's chemo treatments for cancer, and my mess with a totally blocked left leg artery that Doctors have now given up on due to my body rejecting the stents, life's been a bitch for us - so seeing guests is difficult with each of our needs.(http://www.bing.com/search?q=How+to+Gro ... FORM=QSRE4)

Wish I could help more but just getting my own stuff done is very difficult. I need 120+ rounds of target 50BMG loaded next week using IK-98 match prepped cases, CCI#35 primers, 238 grains of V.V.20N29 powder, and 808 grain solid turned brass projectiles. All components need weighing for best grouping. 50BMG FCSA World Championship in Raton, NM, at the NRA Whittington Center July 5th, 6th, & 7th. My new barrel is allowing me to shoot consistent 10 inch groups at 1000 yards, with several in the 8 inch range, and one even less. That was with zero break-in, so hopefully will shoot better yet on next outing.

Barrel cleans up with 4 patches and shows no copper fouling, even with 33% aqueous ammonia used for cleaning. NICE barrel = Feddersen 8 land 1:15 inch twist 34 inches long. Powder fouling


cleans up easily too, nice barrel, very nice finish inside. Did my own gunsmithing work to replace and upgrade my AR-50 barrel. 60 inch LeBlond toolroom lathe and 49 inch Bridgeport are fun shop toys.
My daughter is driving me to Raton, and family will help with wife while I am gone to Match.[/quote/]


Oldman, you are tougher than you give yourself credit for. You are going to beat this set back as will your Mrs.
As I told you, if there is ANYTHING I can do, to assist you in getting ready to go to Raton and whip up on the lesser shooters, I am only an hour away.

BTW His new barrel is SWEET! I wish I had just half of his machining and reloading abilities. And to top it off, he has Mr. Murphy ( The Wonder Dog) for technical and Moral Support! A team like that, is unbeatable.

Take care my friend. Shoot Straight, hit lots of X's and keep those groups tight. You never know, I might just be there a year or two shooting next to you. I know for a Fact, that if I tell you not to let "This Rookie" beat you, you hunker down and shoot EXCELLENT Groups. You will be in my Prayers when you are in Raton. Don't forget, Murphy and I will be rooting for you from Edina, MN

[Synergy]

The same goes for me too Oldman, if you need anything let me know. You and your wife can beat this and I want to encourage you to keep your mind right by thinking positively. At times like this its very easy to for your mind to go south and I firmly believe that part of the healing process is in the mind. You both CAN beat this.

[MarkL]

Woohoo! Had a great day, went to the 2nd Breakfast, met in person a few of the guys from here, nice to meet everyone that showed up.
Decided after that to check out the Bald Eagle Gun Club since it's open to the public on Saturdays, I had brought all my gear just in case, the 25 yard range only had a few people, all were great to chat with and hung around to see me either shoot my new CED M2 chrono or see how it worked. I think they wanted to see if I tried to kill it!
Got setup and fired off my first reloads and got the data below. Had 1 round missing from the 2nd string of the 45's, it looks like it was an error, but attached it to the first string. Not familiar enough yet with this to make corrections on the fly, but other than that, it seemed to work as advertised.
The 9mm seem to be pretty good, wasn't very accurate, so I might want to bump that up a little and try again.

The 45's shot a great group for being light loads, but definitely need to come up, moving pretty slow according to the machine.

String 1 9mm Loaded: 6/28/2013 Once fired Blazer brass, Win 115gr HBRN, Win SPP, Win 231, 4.6gr
FPS Std Dev
1) 1087.0 76.6
2) 1068.0 57.6
3) 1075.0 64.6
4) 1069.0 58.6
5) 1052.0 41.6
6) 1056.0 45.6
7) 1062.0 51.6
8) 1056.0 45.6
9) 1050.0 39.6
10) 528.5 -481.9 f

High: 1087.0
Low: 528.5
E.S.: 558.5
Ave.: 1010.4
S.D.: 161.0
95%: ±128.0

Max for 115gr Jacketed HP 4.9gr fps: 1253



String 2 45acp Loaded 6/17/2013 New Win brass, Berry RN Plated 230gr, Win LPP, Bullseye 4.5gr
FPS Std Dev
1) 479.7 -12.3
2) 458.9 -33.1
3) 508.3 16.3
4) 490.3 -1.7
5) 500.5 8.5
6) 512.6 20.6
7) 466.8 -25.2
8) 539.8 47.8
9) 470.8 -21.2

High: 539.8
Low: 458.9
E.S.: 80.9
Ave.: 492.0
S.D.: 24.5
95%: ±21.1

Max for 230 gr TMJ 5.3gr fps: 878

[Seismic Sam]

Woohoo! Had a great day, went to the 2nd Breakfast, met in person a few of the guys from here, nice to meet everyone that showed up.
Decided after that to check out the Bald Eagle Gun Club since it's open to the public on Saturdays, I had brought all my gear just in case, the 25 yard range only had a few people, all were great to chat with and hung around to see me either shoot my new CED M2 chrono or see how it worked. I think they wanted to see if I tried to kill it!
Got setup and fired off my first reloads and got the data below. Had 1 round missing from the 2nd string of the 45's, it looks like it was an error, but attached it to the first string. Not familiar enough yet with this to make corrections on the fly, but other than that, it seemed to work as advertised.
The 9mm seem to be pretty good, wasn't very accurate, so I might want to bump that up a little and try again.

The 45's shot a great group for being light loads, but definitely need to come up, moving pretty slow according to the machine.

String 1 9mm Loaded: 6/28/2013 Once fired Blazer brass, Win 115gr HBRN, Win SPP, Win 231, 4.6gr
FPS Std Dev WRONG!! This is the variance from the average for each shot!!
1) 1087.0 76.6
2) 1068.0 57.6
3) 1075.0 64.6
4) 1069.0 58.6
5) 1052.0 41.6
6) 1056.0 45.6
7) 1062.0 51.6
8) 1056.0 45.6
9) 1050.0 39.6
10) 528.5 -481.9 f This is an obvious flier, and if the chrono is accurate, is close to a squib. NEVER include data like this in your final calculations. Read the manual and see if there is a way to have the software throw out the fliers. With this one humongous flier in this string, all the numbers below are garbage. Generally, I save the data in text with tab delimiting, and then do the calcs myself after I import the data into Excel if the data is messed up.

High: 1087.0
Low: 528.5
E.S.: 558.5
Ave.: 1010.4
S.D.: 161.0
95%: ±128.0

Max for 115gr Jacketed HP 4.9gr fps: 1253



String 2 45acp Loaded 6/17/2013 New Win brass, Berry RN Plated 230gr, Win LPP, Bullseye 4.5gr
FPS Std Dev
1) 479.7 -12.3
2) 458.9 -33.1
3) 508.3 16.3
4) 490.3 -1.7
5) 500.5 8.5
6) 512.6 20.6
7) 466.8 -25.2
8) 539.8 47.8
9) 470.8 -21.2

High: 539.8
Low: 458.9
E.S.: 80.9
Ave.: 492.0
S.D.: 24.5
95%: ±21.1

Max for 230 gr TMJ 5.3gr fps: 878

Something is wrong with the chrono or your handloads. I suspect your handloads, as the data has a good SD at 24, so this can't be just random numbers coming up. 500 FPS is WAAYYY too low for a 45 230 grain load with 4.5 grs. of Bullseye, and it's supposed to be up in the 750 range for a lead bullet. Your 9mm loads are right on the money for velocity for that recipe, so those 45 loads are screwed up in some inexplicable way.

[MarkL]

ReCalculated manually in Excel for the 9mm:
Not 100% sure if I got the S.D. correct, found some posts and it said to use STDDEV.P

9 shot string evaluation

String 1 - 9mm Variance from avg

1087 23.11
1068 4.11
1075 11.11
1069 5.11
1052 11.89
1056 7.89
1062 1.89
1056 7.89
1050 13.89
High: 1087
Low: 1050
E.S.: 37
Ave.: 1063.89
S.D.: 19.333

There was already too much going on for me to worry about how to operate the M2 at the range, I just stored the data and figured I'd look at it when I got back.
The numbers for the 45 rounds looked low to me as well, no one shot seemed different from the others and as long as the M2 had a reading, I assumed a bullet passed thru it.

I believe the 10th round registered in the 9mm group was actually the first of the 45's and that it had a error or flyer in the 10th shot for the 9mm and I didn't catch it on the chrono to store the data before moving on to the 45's. So the only thing I can think of at this point is to switch the 550b back to the 45 dies (Quickchange setup) and sample the drops for each measure and see if it's 4.5gr or not. I know it took me a long time fiddling with it measuring a total of 10 drops and 10 separate, repeat until I got it consistent.

If anything, learned a lot today, will learn more when I/we figure out why the numbers are what they are.

[Seismic Sam]

Uh-oh!! I think I my have found your low velocity reason. You loaded 9mm ammo first, and used 231, and were throwing 4.6 grains. Then you threw 4.5 grains of Bullseye, or thought you did. Did you REALLY readjust the measure for 4.5 grains and THEN switch to Bullseye?? Since 231 is a ball powder and Bullseye is a flake powder, Bullseye is less dense, and so you may have been shooting loads down in the high 3 or low 4 grain region. Yes, I know that you don't think it's possible you did that, but you're doing this on a Dillon and not step by step, so did you get the order of things confused when you changed over from 9mm to 45??

[MarkL]

I actually loaded the 45's first and I have 2 separate setups for each caliber, on the 550b, pull 2pins and swap out the entire setup, dies, hopper, measure and all.
I'm going to switch it back to the 45 setup tomorrow (Sunday) and see what it's dumping out. I made a lot of checks to ensure I had the right amount consistently. That may provide a answer or rule something out.