Zimmerman Self-Defense Trial off to Acceptable Start :)

[Thunder71]

Which ever individual escalated the situation to violence was a criminal.

Need to be careful there, just because one person is the first to make it physical doesn't mean they are the guilty one - you can feel your life is in danger without being touched.

I'd hate to not be able to defend my life before physical contact is actually made.

[jgalt]

Which ever individual escalated the situation to violence was a criminal.

Need to be careful there, just because one person is the first to make it physical doesn't mean they are the guilty one - you can feel your life is in danger without being touched.

I'd hate to not be able to defend my life before physical contact is actually made.

Re-read what you quoted - "escalation" was mentioned, not "physical contact"...

Assuming Zimmerman's story is accurate, there is no question he was the "reluctant participant" to the physical confrontation / violence, and that is all that matters in determining whether or not he acted in self defense.

Of course, the trial is occurring in order to determine the veracity of that story. If it can be shown that it is not accurate, well then...

[Thunder71]

I knew someone would point that out... escalation of violence was mentioned, which is what I responded to.

My point remains, and I believe is valid.

Quoted: "Which ever individual escalated the situation to violence was a criminal."

Violence: "exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse"

Just because someone uses physical force to defend themselves (escalating to violence) doesn't mean they are the criminal/guilty party as insinuated in the quote.

[jgalt]

"Escalation" used to modify "violence" includes the time after a person goes from "non-violent" to causing a reasonable, immediate fear of harm (or great bodily harm or death for the use of lethal force). Physical contact is not necessary for one to use force against another to defend yourself or another, just the reasonable immediate fear of harm.

Hence, jshuberg's statement as written is accurate.

[Heffay]

I knew someone would point that out... escalation of violence was mentioned, which is what I responded to.

My point remains, and I believe is valid.

Quoted: "Which ever individual escalated the situation to violence was a criminal."

Violence: "exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse"

Just because someone uses physical force to defend themselves (escalating to violence) doesn't mean they are the criminal/guilty party as insinuated in the quote.

Doesn't this pretty much mean you can put yourself into any situation you want, and shoot your way out if things get a bit hairy?

[Thunder71]

I knew someone would point that out... escalation of violence was mentioned, which is what I responded to.

My point remains, and I believe is valid.

Quoted: "Which ever individual escalated the situation to violence was a criminal."

Violence: "exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse"

Just because someone uses physical force to defend themselves (escalating to violence) doesn't mean they are the criminal/guilty party as insinuated in the quote.

Doesn't this pretty much mean you can put yourself into any situation you want, and shoot your way out if things get a bit hairy?

No.

Are you saying you need to wait for violence to occur to defend yourself?

Fear of death or great bodily harm.

Fear of, not 'wait for'.

[Heffay]

Are you saying you need to wait for violence to occur to defend yourself?

Fear of death or great bodily harm.

Fear of, not 'wait for'.

I agree with that. I'm just saying that if you put yourself into a situation that you have to shoot your way out to avoid getting beat, you're partially responsible for what happens.

This case isn't black and white. Both Trayvon and Zimmerman are partially responsible for what happened.

Zimmerman should probably be charged with manslaughter or something similar. It would make a lot more sense.

[JeremiahMN]

JermiahMN. Please enlighten us. Is Travon innocent because he is black? Is Zimmerman guilty because he is not black? In addition, please elaborate why you think Zimmerman should go to jail.

Trayvon is not being accused of a crime last I checked? Zimmerman is guilty because he followed a teenage boy who was doing nothing else but looking black and scary, and then gunned him down. I don't care if Trayvon did smash zimmermans head into the ground when they were scuffling. Trayvon didn't instigate the situation, Zimmerman did. Pretty open/shut. I realize FL has some wacky ass laws and the bar for conviction is high, but I'm still confident that Zimmerman will be convicted. If not, Karma will always catch up.

I realize most of you folks share the vigilante mindset, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[JeremiahMN]

LMAO, she just told the defense atty "that's retarted sir" when he suggested Trayvon was lying to her on the phone because he was planning on attacking zimmerman.

Defense is losing badly.

[jgalt]

Are you saying you need to wait for violence to occur to defend yourself?

Fear of death or great bodily harm.

Fear of, not 'wait for'.

I agree with that. I'm just saying that if you put yourself into a situation that you have to shoot your way out to avoid getting beat, you're partially responsible for what happens.

This case isn't black and white. Both Trayvon and Zimmerman are partially responsible for what happened.

Zimmerman should probably be charged with manslaughter or something similar. It would make a lot more sense.

There is a difference between doing something ill-advised - like, say, following (and eventually talking with) someone you don't know through your neighborhood in order to determine whether or not they are one of the burglars that has been hitting houses in the area recently - and doing something illegal. And there absolutely should be a difference...

Unless you are willing to say that the pretty drunk woman in the mini-skirt is somehow legally culpable for her rape (cause, you know, she was askin' for it and put herself in the position by getting drunk), then you can't also say that Zimmerman is legally culpable for being attacked after disengaging with Martin by heading back to his truck.

Again, assuming you believe Zimmerman's version of events. If he's lying (or if the pretty drunk girl in the mini-skirt is lying) then that changes things.

[JeremiahMN]

JermiahMN. Please enlighten us. Is Travon innocent because he is black? Is Zimmerman guilty because he is not black? In addition, please elaborate why you think Zimmerman should go to jail.

I asked that awhile ago. No response.

Some of us actually have real work and can't police the interwebs all day.

[Heffay]

There is a difference between doing something ill-advised - like, say, following (and eventually talking with) someone you don't know through your neighborhood in order to determine whether or not they are one of the burglars that has been hitting houses in the area recently - and doing something illegal. And there absolutely should be a difference...

There is a difference. One is murder, the other is manslaughter.

[jgalt]

There is a difference between doing something ill-advised - like, say, following (and eventually talking with) someone you don't know through your neighborhood in order to determine whether or not they are one of the burglars that has been hitting houses in the area recently - and doing something illegal. And there absolutely should be a difference...

There is a difference. One is murder, the other is manslaughter.

Citation?

I've looked, but I can't find the info to back up your statement. And if I'm wrong, I want to know...

[Heffay]

There is a difference between doing something ill-advised - like, say, following (and eventually talking with) someone you don't know through your neighborhood in order to determine whether or not they are one of the burglars that has been hitting houses in the area recently - and doing something illegal. And there absolutely should be a difference...

There is a difference. One is murder, the other is manslaughter.

Citation?

I've looked, but I can't find the info to back up your statement. And if I'm wrong, I want to know...

Citation? I'm explaining how I think it should work.

[jgalt]

There is a difference. One is murder, the other is manslaughter.

Citation?

I've looked, but I can't find the info to back up your statement. And if I'm wrong, I want to know...

Citation? I'm explaining how I think it should work.

Ahhh, OK then - thanks for clarifying.

A disagreement over how things "should work" I can handle...