no more gunstop until john is back

[Rodentman]

In my early days at GS I thought John was a bit gruff. He still is, but I am no longer put out by it. I realize he deals with a lot of n00bs and I probably fell into that category when I got back into reloading about 4 years ago. Now I have more experience and can figure out a lot of the issues myself or with the good help here on the forum.

I've had one unpleasant contact with GS during John's absence and I don't plan to go back under current conditions. No point to go into detail but I can get the vast majority of what I need delivered to the house in a couple of days.

[dronning]

What happened to John (owner)?

John had a heart attack memorial weekend, he wasn't feeling well, knew something was in his words "not right" so he drove himself in and they put him in surgery almost right away. I talked to him on the phone a few weeks ago and he sounded well and is doing physical therapy/rehab before the doc will let him return. Not having product has to be stressful I'm sure this didn't help his underlying medical situation. When talking to John he asked me when was the last time I went to see a doctor and suggested I make it a little more often, like most men and annual checkups, advice he admittedly hadn't followed. I did schedule a check up (thanks John).

My experience with John has been great, he helped me get set up, 550 to start then added a 1050. I have been there and heard some of the stupid questions - some have even made me cringe. I would imagine you have to a walk a tight line answering questions from idiots because if they blow up their gun or themselves they are coming right back at ya. I believe this is the reason I hear him give "directional" advice to some, he kind of guides them but lets them make the final decision - smart man. He is always very quick to give the n00bs safety advice. Once he knows you and your level of common sense/knowledge he will get much more specific with his answers.

Get well soon John we miss ya!

I plan to support John while he is recuperating and will continue to buy from GS.

[minnhawk]

John has quite the business model going. He has already failed but, like a dinosaur, his brain hasn't figured out that the body (his business) is already dying. It is hilarious that some of you defend his behaviour. Apologists is an accurate description! When you piss on people, refer to them as noobs, and try to justify rude behaviour, expect to get crabbier and meaner because you are sliding further toward backruptcy by shi*tt*** on potential new customers.

He went a long time getting away being a sh*thead to people because he was the "fountain of all knowledge" in regard to reloading. He probably has never heard of the Internet, buying online, or accessing information about reloading from expert sites found on the Interwebs.

He will never know how many thousands of dollars he and his employees have run off with their mouth and attitude, but when he closes the doors for the last time, I hope he understands that he is the one who is to blame for his wretched little business going away. At least he can say, "I did it my way" (re: Sinatra).

[floydster]

minnhawk, good post, you are spot on!!!

Smokeyloads

[sawgrass]

John the owner has been very helpful to me as a noob and when trying to buy Wrench presents.
A buddy visited me from SC and it was fun bringing him in there since he orders from John online.
Larry is fair and actually underpriced compared to other local shops. Actually Larry is in my top three for local gun guys.

I can't think of anything good to say about the big guy John or the little grey haired guy so, I'll leave it at that.

[RJWesleyIII]

What happened to John (owner)?

John had a heart attack memorial weekend, he wasn't feeling well, knew something was in his words "not right" so he drove himself in and they put him in surgery almost right away.

I had no idea. Thanks for the info. Checkups are very important. I never did them. And if I did, I could have found my issues a lot sooner.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

[Evad]

Don't make dumb requests "I want powder for 9mm bullets." "What kind of powder?" "The kind for 9mm..." (true story - John was in a foul mood for a couple weeks after that one). But, if you say "I have a load using X bullets, Y powder, and Z velocity out of ____ gun, and I want a cheaper projectile that will match the flight characteristics so I can target shoot with similar POA/POI: what would you suggest?" He'll smile, and start exhaling all that guru knowledge he's full of.

This was my experience. I was looking for powder. I wanted unique. I asked, and before he went to get it, I said "I am new, but have been researching. It will be for 9mm 115 and 124 range loads, and 45 230 grain. I like unique for the fact that it has loads for both and I was told it is almost impossible to double charge. Should I look at x or y?" and he said he wouldn't bother and agreed unique was a great starting powder. I verified a couple little things with him, I found him helpful.

John has quite the business model going. He has already failed but, like a dinosaur, his brain hasn't figured out that the body (his business) is already dying. It is hilarious that some of you defend his behaviour. Apologists is an accurate description! When you piss on people, refer to them as noobs, and try to justify rude behaviour, expect to get crabbier and meaner because you are sliding further toward backruptcy by shi*tt*** on potential new customers.

He went a long time getting away being a sh*thead to people because he was the "fountain of all knowledge" in regard to reloading. He probably has never heard of the Internet, buying online, or accessing information about reloading from expert sites found on the Interwebs.

He will never know how many thousands of dollars he and his employees have run off with their mouth and attitude, but when he closes the doors for the last time, I hope he understands that he is the one who is to blame for his wretched little business going away. At least he can say, "I did it my way" (re: Sinatra).

How many customers went to him and wanted everything from teh $30 books compressed into ten sentences? He is selling potentially dangerous items. As I said above, he was helpful to me. He isn't a bubbly teenage girl but I simply don't see the same sales force at ANY gun shop that I see at a clothing store.

I was talking to a very helpful guy at cabellas once recently and a guy interrupted and said "which of these powders should I buy?". The worker asked what he was loading and got "my friend is loading some bullets, I just need powder". Round and round and round and the worker finally said "I can NOT tell you anything safe when you don't even know rifle or handgun. I suggest your friend comes in, or you get more info. " The guy walked away with two pounds and it was pretty apparent he chose them because they were closest to his hand.

[grousemaster]

I think the service/friendliness went up a notch when John went in hospital. He seems legendary to his acolytes and apologists. I don't get it. To new customers/faces, he comes off as an arrogant and grumpy prick. And he charges full bore retail for the privilege. I've heard the same/similar complaints about Larry on the gun side. While he is not the most cuddly of creatures at first, he and most of his staff greeted me by name within the first few months and I found him to be a great source of great deals. Guess which side of the business opened my wallet on a weekly basis. And Larry is a warm and fuzzy, nice and cuddly guy deep down inside

Yup, I get greeted by name from Larry on the gun side to....the "other" John on the reloading side was fine to me last time I was in...but not in a hurry to help anyone.

[Seismic Sam]

One other anecdote that I remember recently this Spring - Some 30-something n00b with hottie GF in tow came into the shop to "buy everything" to start reloading, and knew just enough to be a real buttlead and downright dangerous. The main bone of contention was the fact that this cheap idiot would NOT spend a few bucks for a powder scale, and wanted to get by with using a Lee Perfect Powder measure where the drop setting is calibrated in .01 cc of volume, and there IS a chart if you look for it that gives you approximate densities of powder in grains/CC, so theoretically you could do it that way, and John just wouldn't put up with that. So this cheap jackwad goes wandering around the store looking for some other doohickey that he could use to rationalize his downright dangerous scheme, and bringing it to John with another lame story, and John had finally had enough and raised his voice about as high as I have heard it and told the guy he wasn't getting ANYTHING unless he bought a powder scale. So the n00b finally consents to blowing and extra $18 or so on a Lee scale, which works but is touchy as hell, and John rings him up for his $200 something dollar purchase.

And for those of you posters who get bent out of shape over the term n00b and not getting the same service you get in a men's clothing store, there is a reason for that. Reloading is NOT just about self-centered little you, and your freedom of choice and expectations to be treated well no matter what you do. If you buy a plaid jacket and striped pants, you'll look like an idiot but nobody else will get hurt, so what's the big deal??

Well, the big deal unless you always shoot alone, which is unlikely unless you own 40 acres out in the country, is that you're going to be shooting next to some totally innocent people who have done NOTHING wrong, and you show up with your effed-up n00b handloads, pull the trigger, and the shrapnel goes out in all directions. Had that nearly happen to ME with a squib load some guy's idiot Uncle made up that were HOT 44 mag loads, and my head was 3 feet to the right and about half a second away from the guy pulling the trigger again before he put the gun down after the squib. There are a lot of other people here with similar stories. Don't expect people to just fawn all over you if you look like you're going to get somebody else hurt because you're too lazy to RTFM and want good service as you blindly toddle towards making up some bad loads.

And as far as the "Oh, I could never do something like that" attitude, go sell it somewhere else. I and my therapy dog Sasha work a critical injury/brain injury hospital, and in 3 years of 3 days a week covering the whole 5 stories of this place, have seen literally THOUSANDS of "it can't happen to me" victims that are mangled and injured beyond recognition and sometimes recovery. A lot of the time, it seems like it wasn't even their fault, which is really sad.

Quite frankly, there isn't a lot of difference between an incompetent handloader with an attitude and an Al Quaeda bomb maker, except the bomb maker knows what he's doing, and you don't. Either way, the end result is injured innocent victims. What your intent was to begin with becomes totally irrelevant after the explosion starts to detonate.

[Jack's My dog]

If John the owner is the tall skinny guy with glasses, he has been very helpful for me being a "n00b". When I started asking him questions, the first one was what book should I read, he walked me over to the shelf and handed me the ABC's of Reloading, which I read. My next trip in I let him know I head read the book, and I was ready to try my first loads, and this would be my first foray into reloading. He helped me pick out the components based on my general goal of loading mid-level .38 target fodder without blowing myself up, and may Hornady handbook. On the way out he handed me a card, and advised I call him before I make any dumb mistakes. I still have the card sitting on my desk, I thought the offer was pretty generous.

I think he came off a bit gruff at first, but I also think John has a very dry sense of humor that gets missed based on the interactions I have had with him. The big bald guy behind the reloading counter has left me vowing never to go back... I have been back several times since but I avoid that dude if at all possible.

[Seismic Sam]

What happened to John (owner)?

John had a heart attack memorial weekend, he wasn't feeling well, knew something was in his words "not right" so he drove himself in and they put him in surgery almost right away. I talked to him on the phone a few weeks ago and he sounded well and is doing physical therapy/rehab before the doc will let him return. Not having product has to be stressful I'm sure this didn't help his underlying medical situation. When talking to John he asked me when was the last time I went to see a doctor and suggested I make it a little more often, like most men and annual checkups, advice he admittedly hadn't followed. I did schedule a check up (thanks John).

Just re-read this post, and realized something that has scared the crap out of me, and probably John when his heart attack happened.

The original owner of Gunstop was Howard Hall, a nice old guy who ran a good business and offered nothing but fair deals, and he was well up in his 70's. I was THERE with Sasha one Saturday afternoon, and Howard enjoyed petting Sasha just like Larry does and he seemed a little tired, but it had been a busy Gunstop Saturday. Turned out he was in the initial stages of a heart attack, and died at home several hours after I saw him. That must have freaked the hell out of John when he started feeling funny and THAT thought surfaced in his head...

[plblark]

My first trip in, I had a list from pinnacle memorized to start loading. I needs, y,and z. All was well until I asked about .38 bullets spontaneously for some day down the road loading .38. John paused, then said wait a second ... How long have you been loading?

He was very helpful and made sure I was getting good advice. Who is teaching you? Oh, ok, you'll be fine.

[Belgiboy]

Years and years ago, the guy here referred to as 'Big John' reached out to me (I was an obvious noob back then) and taught me all that I know about reloading. He came to my place and helped me set up my gear, he drove me all over the cities to different ranges and showed me how to pull a trigger. It is because of him that I have rifle/ammo combinations that will shoot .5 MOA and often times better (no BS, I have plenty of proof). He actually used to be a fairly active member of this forum in the olden days. I'm convinced he's following this thread. However bad stuff happened when I called him on his often poor way of dealing with people. We had words ( a lot of them) and haven't really spoken since. This was all before he started helping out in the Gunstop. He could have been instrumental in showing guys the right and proper and safe way to reload if he was a little more socially adept. He is really that knowledgable and an awesome shot with a pistol too. I miss the hours of nothing but talk about powders and primers etc sometimes. Thru big John I got to know Gunstop John pretty well and he's been very fair to me always.

I agree that they deal with scores of idiots who come in the store with vague notions of what they need and not enough brains in their skull to listen or do the homework. I know, I used to be one of them. I dont believe that anybody in this thread would qualify as such. First thing GS John ever sold me was the Hornady manual with the message to come back after I read it. I'm glad I did.

I know both Johns can be short and cranky to the point of being rude. If I was Stephen Hawking and I had to show people how to add and subtract every day, I'd get a bit cranky too. Is it an excuse for the rudeness? No it is not. It's merely a context.

[FJ540]

John has quite the business model going. He has already failed but, like a dinosaur, his brain hasn't figured out that the body (his business) is already dying. It is hilarious that some of you defend his behaviour. Apologists is an accurate description! When you piss on people, refer to them as noobs, and try to justify rude behaviour, expect to get crabbier and meaner because you are sliding further toward backruptcy by shi*tt*** on potential new customers.

He went a long time getting away being a sh*thead to people because he was the "fountain of all knowledge" in regard to reloading. He probably has never heard of the Internet, buying online, or accessing information about reloading from expert sites found on the Interwebs.

He will never know how many thousands of dollars he and his employees have run off with their mouth and attitude, but when he closes the doors for the last time, I hope he understands that he is the one who is to blame for his wretched little business going away. At least he can say, "I did it my way" (re: Sinatra).

Well, you're sure an expurt on the shop, aren't ya?

http://www.gunstop.com

He does substantially north of a million dollars a year in business based on rough calculations of what I heard him say regarding how much he orders every week.

When he had 300blk dies and no one else did, I sent them to him for online ordering, and he shipped them out very promptly.

[Sammichman]

Quite Honestly ,I always got straight and to the Point talk from John ,,I like his no BS atitude and I catch His sense of Humor,, Us Chicago transplants enjoy straight talk ,,Get Well John,