Awkward purchasing question

[jdege]

While it's not illegal to transfer if you have a permit ( mn 609.66 and mn 624.713). I for one would never transfer without paperwork for my own protection.

Even though I could show a valid MN license and a MN permit to acquire handguns?

If I buy a handgun or assault weapon through a dealer, and am the owner of record, and then sell it to someone off-paper, and he uses it to commit a crime of violence within one year, I am in serious legal jeopardy:

Minn. Stat. 609.66 Subd. 1f.

Gross misdemeanor; transferring firearm without background check. A person, other than a federally licensed firearms dealer, who transfers a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to another without complying with the transfer requirements of section 624.7132, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor if the transferee possesses or uses the weapon within one year after the transfer in furtherance of a felony crime of violence, and if:
(1) the transferee was prohibited from possessing the weapon under section 624.713 at the time of the transfer; or
(2) it was reasonably foreseeable at the time of the transfer that the transferee was likely to use or possess the weapon in furtherance of a felony crime of violence.

You can do as you like, but I understand entirely if someone wants to keep a paper trail on a private transfer.

[bobthing]

That makes sense. Oh well. I still think I will buy one in the next few months. Guess I will just have to deal with being on "the list".

[bobthing]

So I just reread the statute you posted. I didn't realise military style rifles were grouped together with handguns. That changes things then. Of course no one should sell an AR without documentation and reporting the sale. I didn't know they would be liable if they didn't.

Forget I asked, I wouldn't put someone in that position whether they knew about it or not.

The NSA reading this can call down now. Or if you plan on stopping by to interrogate me, please bring some Reeces peanut butter cups. I have a craving for chocolaty goodness.

[Scratch]

When you fill out a 4473, yes the dealer calls "the man" and they do a background check, but all "the man" asks is if it's for a "handgun, long gun, or other" (in the case of a receiver, it's an other)
"The man" doesn't know how many, or what kind of gun you are purchasing other than that, and you could also change your mind after the BGC.

Then the 4473 goes into storage at the dealers location, and after 20 years, can be destroyed. The form never leaves the dealer unless the firearm is involved in a crime and the Feds do a trace on it.

So technically you're not on "a list" for buying that gun.





Of course if all he'll breaks loose, we all lose our gun rights, and they come to take them away, then "the man" will be confiscating all those forms from the dealer and will have your name and what you bought.... But.... You can "sell" the gun face to face without any paperwork legally at any time ya know.... Or have an unfortunate boating accident...

[Thunder71]

Unless they try to ban boating accidents again.

[Scratch]

Unless they try to ban boating accidents again.

That'll never happen... That's what the constitution is for.

[Mn01r6]

[OldmanFCSA]

I LIKE THIS and need one on the StCroix River where I lost all my firearms in a boating accident.

O.P. - by posting here, the NSA has your ID, location, and numbers. "George Orwell - 1984" (if I remember correctly) applies here today.

[xd ED]

You could have someone else go into a gun store and buy if for you.

I assume this is a joke.

But seriously, why not get a 80% receiver, pay with cash, and build it yourself?

Not only will you be off your radar, but your firearm will be as well

Since I'm totally unsure on this technicality, I'm asking FWIW, but don't you have to fill out a 4473 if you buy and AR-15 (or any other??) receiver, which is what has the serial number on it and is therefore legally "a gun"??

Not width an 80% receiver. It is not yet an official gun part, and whomever does the last 20% is the manufacturer. They do not need to be stamped/ number, and Cannot be transferred.

I think that if it is stamped and the manufacture documented w/ ATF then it can be sold...I think

There's a bit of an industry out there selling 80% receivers and the tooling, jigs to complete them.

[Squib Joe]

Not width an 80% receiver. It is not yet an official gun part, and whomever does the last 20% is the manufacturer. They do not need to be stamped/ number, and Cannot be transferred.

I think that if it is stamped and the manufacture documented w/ ATF then it can be sold...I think

There's a bit of an industry out there selling 80% receivers and the tooling, jigs to complete them.

What he said. Also, you can only manufacture a firearm if you can legally own that firearm and the firearm is legal in the state you live in. They "can" be done with just a drill press but it would be a lot quicker if you have access to a mill.

[jdege]

So I just reread the statute you posted. I didn't realise military style rifles were grouped together with handguns. That changes things then. Of course no one should sell an AR without documentation and reporting the sale. I didn't know they would be liable if they didn't.

You don't need to report the sale, but you might want to keep records to document that you saw a PTC in case they come by and ask.

[Dakotared]

Wow the board was nicer to the OP then what I thought was going to happen.

[Uffdaphil]

You ought to feel more than just awkward. You are asking the seller to take the heat, after giving you sole control, if is used in a crime. Every crook on earth would love that deal.

[bobthing]

Yeah, OP still feels bad about this whole thing. If I had known about the liability of the seller deal I would never have asked in the first place. Like I have said from the start I don't plan, nor want to do anything illegal. I appreciate all of the constructive comments. Even though purchasing "off the books" IS legal, I would never want to put someone in that position. Its just rude and frankly quite suspicious. I'm glad I asked here first instead of asking an innocent someone to sell me an AR without paperwork.

Thanks for not burning me at the stake!

[AFTERMATH]

Just tell 'em you bought it to show how easy it is.