Minnesota Orchestra

[xd ED]

Heck, I'll just say it. Art... when it's created and/or performed for its own sake... is not important. It's a frivolous indulgence, patronized by an elitist sect that deams itself the arbiter of socio-cultural value. I gotta get up in the morning and decide how I'm gonna pay for my son's ice time this season. How DARE you proclaim your "art" important enough to take MY money and fund it. My neighbor is upside-down on his mortgage, got his hours cut back, and likely will lose insurance benefits... has to uproot his family and try to figure out where to go from here. He still makes enough $ that he has to pay state income tax. How DARE you take his money and give it to a violinist who makes six figures. Yeah, that same violinist who knows which side her bread is buttered on and will certainly vote herself a raise in EVERY election.

Anybody who thinks it was EVER ok to pay for this crap with public dollars is off the reservation.

I never said it was ok. I just said what it is. Now, as to your belief that art is a frivolous, elitist institution: All art belongs to the people at some level or another. I am sorry you don't see the aesthetic value of art and music. There are only two things a civilization leaves behind for future genrations to discover: art and trash.

Who gets to make the distinction?......and why?

[Texastransplant]

Heck, I'll just say it. Art... when it's created and/or performed for its own sake... is not important. It's a frivolous indulgence, patronized by an elitist sect that deams itself the arbiter of socio-cultural value. I gotta get up in the morning and decide how I'm gonna pay for my son's ice time this season. How DARE you proclaim your "art" important enough to take MY money and fund it. My neighbor is upside-down on his mortgage, got his hours cut back, and likely will lose insurance benefits... has to uproot his family and try to figure out where to go from here. He still makes enough $ that he has to pay state income tax. How DARE you take his money and give it to a violinist who makes six figures. Yeah, that same violinist who knows which side her bread is buttered on and will certainly vote herself a raise in EVERY election.

Anybody who thinks it was EVER ok to pay for this crap with public dollars is off the reservation.

I never said it was ok. I just said what it is. Now, as to your belief that art is a frivolous, elitist institution: All art belongs to the people at some level or another. I am sorry you don't see the aesthetic value of art and music. There are only two things a civilization leaves behind for future genrations to discover: art and trash.

Who gets to make the distinction?......and why?

Those who take the time to try and understand it, because they can truly appreciate it. And you don't have to be a turtleneck-wearing snob with leather elbow patches on you tweed jacket to do so. There are books about this, although admittedly most likely written by turtleneck-wearing snob with leather elbow patches on you tweed jacket, that might help to explain concepts of technique, organization, and understanding of artistic concepts or movements.

[xd ED]

Those who take the time to try and understand it, because they can truly appreciate it. And you don't have to be a turtleneck-wearing snob with leather elbow patches on you tweed jacket to do so. There are books about this, although admittedly most likely written by turtleneck-wearing snob with leather elbow patches on you tweed jacket, that might help to explain concepts of technique, organization, and understanding of artistic concepts or movements.

Do they then have the right to privilege of confiscating other people's money?

[Texastransplant]

Do I really have to say no again? Have I stated anywhere that they should? I pointed out that they have. That is all. I was trying to provide context, given that this is a field which I am very familiar with. Do I need to apologize for that?

[xd ED]

Do I really have to say no again? Have I stated anywhere that they should? I pointed out that they have. That is all. I was trying to provide context, given that this is a field which I am very familiar with. Do I need to apologize for that?

My apology as I missed that.

But you must admit- in contemporary discussions of 'art' (public) funding is an inextricable component of the discussion.
Eliminate that, and we are all free individuals to pursue, and enjoy it as we see fit.

[Texastransplant]

Do I really have to say no again? Have I stated anywhere that they should? I pointed out that they have. That is all. I was trying to provide context, given that this is a field which I am very familiar with. Do I need to apologize for that?

My apology as I missed that.

But you must admit- in contemporary discussions of 'art' (public) funding is an inextricable component of the discussion.
Eliminate that, and we are all free individuals to pursue, and enjoy it as we see fit.

Exactly. To be perfectly honest, there is a part of me that would rather let these institutions die, as they are no longer doing anything along the lines of progressing the music into modern times. It is a rare thing to see a new composition on the program. Beethoven puts butts in the seats, as the saying goes. Compared to 100 years ago, with Stravinsky, Bartok, Satie, Schoenberg, Milhaud, etc. we are living in very stale musical times, and the major symphonies are doing nothing to help.

Incidentally, most of those I mentioned were able to pull off a large amount of their work through private ventures like the Ballet Russe in Paris, or through private organizations like the ISCM. Little to no public funding and some of the most radical compositions in history! It can, and must be done!

[bstrawse]

Do I really have to say no again? Have I stated anywhere that they should? I pointed out that they have. That is all. I was trying to provide context, given that this is a field which I am very familiar with. Do I need to apologize for that?

My apology as I missed that.

But you must admit- in contemporary discussions of 'art' (public) funding is an inextricable component of the discussion.
Eliminate that, and we are all free individuals to pursue, and enjoy it as we see fit.

Exactly. To be perfectly honest, there is a part of me that would rather let these institutions die, as they are no longer doing anything along the lines of progressing the music into modern times. It is a rare thing to see a new composition on the program. Beethoven puts butts in the seats, as the saying goes. Compared to 100 years ago, with Stravinsky, Bartok, Satie, Schoenberg, Milhaud, etc. we are living in very stale musical times, and the major symphonies are doing nothing to help.

Incidentally, most of those I mentioned were able to pull off a large amount of their work through private ventures like the Ballet Russe in Paris, or through private organizations like the ISCM. Little to no public funding and some of the most radical compositions in history! It can, and must be done!

The Minnesota Orchestra has a young composer's program and offers an annual exposition of the results of that program. It's been one of the better concerts in recent years. They also have premiered several new works -- so I wouldn't say that they're doing nothing to help.

B

[Texastransplant]

That's great, but I would rather hear new works by modern masters like Golijov, Part, Mackie, Tichelli, and so on. Young composer concerts are cute, and I support them, but it stops there. When was the last time Kurtag or Ligetti were performed in the Twin Cities?

[bstrawse]

That's great, but I would rather hear new works by modern masters like Golijov, Part, Mackie, Tichelli, and so on. Young composer concerts are cute, and I support them, but it stops there. When was the last time Kurtag or Ligetti were performed in the Twin Cities?

Here's a couple results on that -- I'm in class and can't dig further right now:

Ligetti 2010
Kurtag 2011 (by the St. Paul Chamber, just to be clear)
Golijov's works have been performed several times - and 2 of his pieces were premiered by the MN Orchestra

[Texastransplant]

Outstanding! Remember, I'm new around these parts. Sorry for the snark. A quick google check would have saved me some crow eating.