Accurate #5 not so accurate with 115gr?

[Ski_Doctor]

I've been trying various loads in 115gr 9mm FMJ using Accurate #5 and just don't seem to be getting any satisfying results. The loads seem to have cycling issues at the low end, and weird fliers between middle and higher ends. The accuracy is all over the place with larger than normal groups on slow fire. I'm using the same gun, OAL, bullets and primers as I use in other powders so we can rule out discrepancies there. I've generally tried the full range of loads based on several sources, but for reference purposes, the load data for AA#5 off their website is as follows:

115 SIERRA FMJ 5.4 1,021 6.3 1,148 34,200 1.100

Could it be the shooter? Well yes it certainly could, but loads using PP or HP-38 formulas with the same setup result in outstanding results (around middle for both), and no cycling issues. So my question is this: does anyone use AA#5 with decent results for 9mm 115gr or am I just wasting powder trying to find 'the sweet spot' for this stuff? It is a slightly slower burning powder compared to the other two, so should it be used for a different weight bullet (124 or 147) or heavier caliber with better results?

tick, tock, tick, tock.... waiting for Sam to chime in....

[Seismic Sam]

The road to reloading hell is paved with the souls of people who got their reloading data off the interwebz...

Nosler MANUAL, shows 5.7 - 6.7 grains of AA#5, with 927 to 1091 FPS

I can see why the 5.3 loads might not cycle the action, but I get the feeling that something else is not working right with your setup. Dunno what it could be.

[Rip Van Winkle]

am I just wasting powder trying to find 'the sweet spot' for this stuff?

If your getting good results with PP or HP-38, I'd say yes.

[BigDog58]

Are you crimping your rounds the same as you are with the other powders? If you are, try slightly increasin or decreasing. If you have a chronograph it too, would aid you. If the AA 5 is giving wild differentiations in speed it could cause this to happen. I also believe that the crimp could cause you to be getting fluctuations in pressures, between the different burning speeds of each powder.

I may be way off here, but Sam or OldMan might weigh in on this too.

[Ski_Doctor]

I didn't consider the crimp in the equation and you might be onto something. I did do a slight change up from the HP-38 and PP loads but thought I got the crimp back to where it should have been. Maybe that's enough to cause the wierdness In Accuracy. I do have a crono but didn't take it with to the range (my bad).

Sam - thanks for the Nosler data. I have two books plus usually a cross check from a third source, and there is a little variance. The Nosler data is certainly higher than the others by a fair shake. I wasn't showing any signs of over pressure at my max load (~6.2) and that would be smack in mid range according to your Nosler data.

I guess I have a little more homework to do with this powder.

[Seismic Sam]

I didn't consider the crimp in the equation and you might be onto something. I did do a slight change up from the HP-38 and PP loads but thought I got the crimp back to where it should have been. Maybe that's enough to cause the wierdness In Accuracy. I do have a crono but didn't take it with to the range (my bad).

Sam - thanks for the Nosler data. I have two books plus usually a cross check from a third source, and there is a little variance. The Nosler data is certainly higher than the others by a fair shake. I wasn't showing any signs of over pressure at my max load (~6.2) and that would be smack in mid range according to your Nosler data.

I guess I have a little more homework to do with this powder.

Hate to disagree, but there is NO more homework to do with this powder itself. It's in multiple manuals, it's been a staple of pistol reloading for decades, and people load the stuff in 9mm all the time. The problem here is that YOUR reloading setup is messed up in some way, either with measuring out the powder or the crimp or something else. It's relatively easy to screw things up with the crimp as a rookie, so that's the most likely candidate.

I'm going to guess here, and I think you are probably trying to seat the bullet AND crimp it with the seating die. Am I right?? This is nearly impossible for a n00b to get right in less than 5 tries, and I have described the process in several posts in here, so you can search for it. SO: You have met the enemy, and he is you... start getting acquainted...

Oh, and also time to wake up and smell the coffee about the "sweet spot": With handgun reloading, the sweet spot is a complete MYTH unless you're shooting with the gun clamped in a Ransom Machine rest and also have a chrono. 95% of ALL handgun reloading accuracy is based on the tightness of the loose nut behind the trigger. Tightest group I EVER shot with my 9mm Browning was some really crappy handloads, and I was just trying to burn off the ammo to get the precious cases back. Did a 10 round mag dump about as fast as I could while I was pretending to aim, and wound up with a 7 shot group the size of a nickel and the other 3 shots nearby.

Sweet spot is VERY real provided you're shooting a 6mm PPC or a 6.5 Creedmore or a lot of other rifle calibers. With a normal handgun, it's a COMPLETE fantasy, as least as far as measuring it by group size. You can pick up the most CONSISTENT load by the picking the string with the lowest standard deviation of the velocity, but there is NO way to prove it with the bullets spread on paper if you're shooting offhand.

[SIGP240]

In this thread I detect malfunction issues in addition to lack of accuracy. I am neither an expert nor a ballistician. In my reading and experiences, I am mulling over some variables:
1. New certified recoil springs in firearm?
2. Choose best powder volume so it fills the case in front of flash hole?
3. 115 has less mass than 124gr. Upping bullet weight may help recoil pulse. (Newtons law.)
4. Slide/frame fit? Match barrel/bushing?
5. Uniform flash hole? All same brand brass?
6. Taper crimp in separate stage without deforming bullet?
7. Maintained press without wobbly ram?
8. Correct shell plate or shell holder?
9 Shoot groups from heavy sandbag or Ransom. Offhand has some variables.
10. FIRM GRIP during firing?
11. Mike the bullet for diameter?
12. Twist rate vs velocity vs bullet wt?

Would be interesting to compare loads in another reference gun like T/C contender 14" or AR-15 9mm HB or SIG P-210 or P-226 X5
Good luck

[Seismic Sam]

In this thread I detect malfunction issues in addition to lack of accuracy. I am neither an expert nor a ballistician. In my reading and experiences, I am mulling over some variables:
1. New certified recoil springs in firearm?
2. Choose best powder volume so it fills the case in front of flash hole?
3. 115 has less mass than 124gr. Upping bullet weight may help recoil pulse. (Newtons law.)
4. Slide/frame fit? Match barrel/bushing?
5. Uniform flash hole? All same brand brass?
6. Taper crimp in separate stage without deforming bullet? I called this in my post above. 99% chance that's the problem.
7. Maintained press without wobbly ram?
8. Correct shell plate or shell holder?
9 Shoot groups from heavy sandbag or Ransom. Offhand has some variables.
10. FIRM GRIP during firing?
11. Mike the bullet for diameter?
12. Twist rate vs velocity vs bullet wt?

Would be interesting to compare loads in another reference gun like T/C contender 14" or AR-15 9mm HB or SIG P-210 or P-226 X5
Good luck