Respectfully, I do not want 'Constitutional Carry' in MN :)

[jshuberg]

The way GOCRA put it at their meeting, last session we were able to survive the onslaught of the gun grabbers largely because Heather and friends are retards and made mistakes. This session, Bloomberg money is going to flood in. There will be a well orchestrated campaign against us. There will undoubtedly be news stories, TV commercials, and some of the best organizers, activists, and lobbyists in the country being paid extremely well to push their gun control agenda.

I don't want to say we're outmatched, but the threat is bigger than anything we've dealt with in MN before. Way more organized, way more professional, and way more funded. This isn't the time we should reach for the next rung on the ladder. This is when we hold on as tightly as possible, and do everything we can to keep from being shaken off it. Unfortunately, we have to play defensive. We simply don't have the resources to both defend against the attack, and make progress on another front simultaneously.

Divide and conquer. The more the anti's can distract some of us with wasting our time with anything other than standing our ground, the easier it will be for them to try and push their agenda.


In fact, it may have actually started. Notice the post above by DustinD. First post on the forum, advocating that we start reaching for new rungs on the ladder, silencers, stand your ground law, constitutional carry, etc. I have no idea if he's one of the guys being paid from Bloomberg monies, but this is the kind of thing that we should start to expect, and to be on the alert for. There are likely to be a lot of new 'gun people' showing up advocating this and that, riling up the troops, and generally distracting people from the one thing we need to be focused on.

I urge everyone, please don't take the bait. Don't get sucked into distractions or fall for the message of false prophets, even if their message sounds fantastic. If someone is advocating action, or soliciting donations, and they aren't associated with the NRA, GOCRA, or the new MNGOPAC, there's a possibility that they may be actually working against our interests, siphoning off our resources to divide and weaken us.

GOCRA has demonstrated over several decades that they are not only on 100% our side, but they are also incredibly effective in furthering our cause in the legislature. The best way for us to prevail is to follow their lead. We may disagree with their decisions on things from time to time, but we still need to remain unified in our defense. We need to trust that those who have been leading the fight know what they're doing, and have a better understanding of the field of battle than we do. They should be the recipients of donations you wish to make, their direction should be the one that we follow. If we do this, I'm certain that we'll prevail. If we get caught up with a bunch of distractions, infighting and divided efforts, I'm not so sure.

[gunsmith]

jshuberg, Thanks for another excellent post.

[DustinD]

I was on the MN forums (I forget which ones) back in 2003 and 2004. I am also on http://www.thehighroad.org http://www.armedpolitesociety.com and a few others. Andrew Rothman and a few others can vouch for me. I went shooting, help with passing the carry laws, twice, and crashed a few Million Mom March events with them back in 2003 and 2004. I was at all but three hearings this year.

This isn't the time we should reach for the next rung on the ladder. [...and...] The more the anti's can distract some of us with wasting our time with anything other than standing our ground

I don't see how getting politicians familiar with a few other issues, or just one new one is going to hurt us. Considering how many bills and issues politicians and even our group deal with in a year, I doubt one more will hurt us. What does "hold on tight" even mean in the real world? All most of us do is show up when needed, write letters, and make phone calls. I can easily increase any of that by another ten percent, or way more if hypothetically needed. I just don't see what the limiting factor is there. It would also be nice to make our opponents have to do some defense too.

I know the various discussions with politicians and eventually public debates take a lot of time, but the sooner we start pushing, the sooner we can get bills started. What else is limiting us other than the current, but not permanent make up of the legislature and the governor?

[jshuberg]

Sorry for pointing out your post if I did so in error, but I wanted to make the point that there may be a bunch of new faces showing up, beating the drum so to speak, advocating efforts in multiple directions. Yours looked like it could have been that kind of thing, what with it being your first post and all, so if I was wrong I apologize.

I was also at every one of the hearings that was held, except for the 2nd one that concerned carry at the Capitol. I had to take a bunch of vacation time to do this. People showing up at the Capitol appears to be one of the largest things our side has going for it, especially when they realize many of us had to take time off and make sacrifices to be there. It's not an infinite resource, it should be focused where its most needed, rather than being spread around.

If we were to defend against firearm registration while at the same time pushing for suppressors, the suppressor issue will be stealing resources from the registration issue. Lawyers would have to be involved to work through the details of any legislation, which takes money. People would need to have 1-on-1s, breakfasts, group events, etc. with their legislators to educate them on the issue, and to demonstrate support. Many people would have to come down to testify and attend the hearings. Most people only have a limited amount of time for these kinds of activities, or vacation time they're willing to spend. I honestly can't even imagine all of the machinery and resources that would be required for the repeal of the silencer ban. Especially with the Dems in charge of everything.

I'd love to see the ban repealed. It's a ridiculously worthless law, but I don't want to risk successfully defending against registration to repeal it. Perhaps if its discovered that more than enough political capital exists to mount a successful defense against Bloomberg, I'd absolutely be up for it.

I'd recommend you speak to your friend Andrew about this. He's in a way better position than almost anyone else to speak to the issue. I'm certain I know what he'd tell you, but I'm not going to put words in his mouth. If he says its doable, I would believe him. If he says that's a fight best left for another day, then it's a fight for another day. I trust that he and the other GOCRA folks have their thumb firmly on the pulse of the patient.

Again, we need to come together as a community, regardless of which discipline or tribe you happen to belong to. We need to follow the lead of those who know the best and most effective way to proceed. We need to become a self-herding community that moves as a unit, and at the moment that's preparing for the next legislative session and defending against the Bloomberg machine.

The main things the Bloomberg brings to the party is organization and funding. GOCRA/MNGOPAC are getting all their ducks in a row in anticipation of the fight, but they also need money as well.They've managed to get quite a lot done on a comparatively shoe-string budget (state preemption, shall issue carry law *twice*, stand your ground, etc), but this time it's not enough to be on the right side. This time they need money. I would encourage anyone who wishes to preserve their firearms rights to weigh the value of those rights, and to donate a portion to one or either of these groups. They're our best and possibly only defense against what's coming.

[photogpat]

Its a resource issue. Being grassroots, they don't have the manpower or budget to bring multiple issues to bear.

Ironically, with 160k carry permit holders, if each one contributed $1, GOCRA could have a fulltime lobbyist at the Capitol. If each one gave $2...add another. Then we could start to play "Take it back". Imagine if both GOCRA and the PAC were funded to the level of "Protect" MN (and their various astroturfs)...imagine that!

They need the resources. Its begun with the new MNGOPAC...and it'll keep rolling. But we need to keep supporting it.

Guys and gals, it's been said before - but this year it's more important than ever. Instead of another box of ammo, or another PMAG...make that donation. Consider an ongoing donation each month too...far easier to budget when you know what's coming in.

[mrokern]

Some thoughts from the campaign side of the house...

The current legislative environment is exactly why we started the Minnesota Gun Owners Political Action Committee. GOCRA will have to lobby within the ugliness that is St. Paul right now, but we at MNGOPAC want to make that job a lot easier after the next election by putting more pro-Second Amendment candidates in office.

Bloomberg's tactic will be very straightforward...one topic, pounding it over and over into everyone via multiple outlets; the topic is Universal Background Checks. Savvy gun owners recognize this as a code phrase for mandatory registration.

I actually WANT Paymar to bring up all the crap from last session, but I don't think he will...and if he does, I don't think the DFL will let it hit the floor of the House. In the meantime, the DFL controls the committees. We can write all the bills we want, but they won't ever see a single committee meeting much less a floor vote.

We also have to be careful about opening up current laws for any changes. Remember, as soon as we open something up, amendments become germane. If we try to get clever, imagine this...the DFL allows one of our suggestions to get through to the floor about suppressors. On the floor, when we have zero chance to do anything about it, an amendment gets offered that limits the suppressors to law enforcement use only and then ANOTHER amendment gets offered that all guns capable of taking a suppressor must be registered with the state. Oops.

MNGOPAC will be talking topics such as suppressors and SYG with candidates. It's our job to do so, and we will be letting Minnesota gun owners know where the candidates stand.

-Mark
Chairman, MNGOPAC

[bstrawse]

Its a resource issue. Being grassroots, they don't have the manpower or budget to bring multiple issues to bear.

Ironically, with 160k carry permit holders, if each one contributed $1, GOCRA could have a fulltime lobbyist at the Capitol. If each one gave $2...add another. Then we could start to play "Take it back". Imagine if both GOCRA and the PAC were funded to the level of "Protect" MN (and their various astroturfs)...imagine that!

They need the resources. Its begun with the new MNGOPAC...and it'll keep rolling. But we need to keep supporting it.

Guys and gals, it's been said before - but this year it's more important than ever. Instead of another box of ammo, or another PMAG...make that donation. Consider an ongoing donation each month too...far easier to budget when you know what's coming in.

^^ What Pat said.

You can donate to the Minnesota Gun Owners Political Action Committee at http://mngopac.org/donate - we have some cool swag to share with you too. Follow us on Facebook at http://facebook.com/mngopac

And if you've not done so, you should join GOCRA at http://gocra.org/join - and follow them on Facebook at http://facebook.com/gocra

Bryan
Treasurer, MNGOPAC.

[gunsmith]

Bloomberg's tactic will be very straightforward...one topic, pounding it over and over into everyone via multiple outlets; the topic is Universal Background Checks. Savvy gun owners recognize this as a code phrase for mandatory registration.

-Mark
Chairman, MNGOPAC

I like that phrase 'Put it in one Sentence' I would like to see the phrase 'Universal Gun Registration' or 'Universal Gun and Owner Registration and Background Check' to be......??? Tediously substituted in the language of the 2A community whenever the topic comes up.

This is a bit of ???? 'Propaganda-Speak' but I think a relentless hammering of the point will be useful...

as in my opinion 'Universal Gun and Gun Owner Registration and Background Check'
is the core point.

Just to be redundant again:

Universal Gun and Gun Owner Registration and Background Check'
is the core point.

Just to be redundant again:

Universal Gun and Gun Owner Registration and Background Check'
is the core point.

Also the fact that we have a MNGOPAC is music to my ears...

What's involved in doing a MN version of MidwayUSA's 'round up' or some variant. At Gun Stores , Ranges, USPSA / IDPA shoots, etc.

I don't know the mechanics of this as far as using PayPal or a Crowd sourcing website but we're NOT doing it and the Left is good at the crowd-sourcing thing. And it's as easy as whipping out your cell phone and making a PayPal payment or doing it through Amazon.com

A Green/Lefty/Tree-Hugger Cafe in my neighborhood just contracted to do a $1,000,000.00 expansion...a full $100,000.00 was funneled to them by KICKSTARTER.COM It's amazing...follow this link and you'll see what they did:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bir ... -grow-time

This is from the MidwayUSA website:

by MidwayUSA December 7, 2012
Columbia, MO -

For the first time ever, MidwayUSA Customer Round-Up contributions topped $1 million in a single year, the highest amount ever donated by MidwayUSA Customers since the program launched in January 1992. In the month of November alone, Customer contributions totaled over $100,000, the most that has ever been collected in a single month – two incredible records!

"Brenda and I never dreamed the NRA Round-Up Program would become as successful as it has today," said Larry Potterfield. "We are so grateful for our Customers and what they have done to help support the Round-Up Program and the Second Amendment!"

Every time a Customer places an order with MidwayUSA, they are asked if they want to "Round-Up" their order to the nearest dollar. Each week, and every week since the program began 20 years ago, these donations are sent to the NRA where they are deposited into a special fund called the National Endowment for the Protection of the Second Amendment.

"With the reelection of President Obama, America can bank on more attempts to diminish our freedom and constant legal challenges to the Second Amendment," said Executive Director of the NRA-ILA Chris Cox. "This significant support is coming at a time of great need. The Second Amendment has true defenders in the Customers and staff of MidwayUSA. We would like to thank Larry and Brenda Potterfield for their dedication as we confront our challenge to defend America's First Freedom."

Here's a recap of Round-Up donations since inception:
Date Started: January 2, 1992
Amount Collected in Last Month: $109,978.41
Total Year To Date Collections: $1,000,043.72
Total MidwayUSA Collections Since Inception: $7,615,076.86
Total Balance in National Account: $9,468,370.68*

(*Other shooting industry companies have chosen to embrace the NRA Round-Up Program and ask their Customers to round up as well. This amount represents the total contributions from Customers of all NRA Round-Up companies not just MidwayUSA).

[RobD]

I'm all for legalizing suppressors - however, I do not believe that such a bill would even get a hearing with Paymar and Latz controlling the two committees through the end of the 2014 term. We're going to have to go all-out just to play defense, unfortunately.
b

Sometimes the best defense, is coming out swinging with a strong offense.

I've worked the legislative process on some other issues in the past. The one that I was most involved with, it took two years of behind the scenes before we even got a hearing. then two more years in committee before we made it thru. There is no doubt i understand that we are going to be on our heels on some issues. But sitting back and doing nothing accomplishes exactly that.

Unfortunately, Committee Chairs have a lot of power. They get to decide what bills get called heard in committee. Bottom line is any progun bill will be ignored by Latz and Paymar. (HF419 is a good example)

We are essentially at the mercy of the Chairs. There are some ways to bypass committees, but not likely in a DFL majority in both chambers.

[Lights]

And that is why I thing are committee system sucks. The chair has way to much power.

[MaryB]

Push for anything get rid of the permit to purchase, it is a duplication of the background check at the gun store. Plus some town police chiefs(like mine) think they can break the law and take months to issue one.