Glock 42

[jp8775]

Most all Mice guns are about 5" or less, that last 1/2 inch makes a difference and they are also lighter I am sure there are some that break theses dimensions though.

Kel-Tec P3AT Ruger LCP
Weight 8.3 Oz 9.42 Oz
Frame Width 0.798" 0.790"
Barrel Length 2.745" 2.796"
Slide Width 0.748" 0.741"
Overall Length 5.14" 5.172"
Overall Height 3.576" 3.612"
Cartridge Capacity 6+1 6+1

[cobb]

I would refer to a PM9 as well as a G42 and guns that have OAL in the 5.5 area as pocket pistols. To small to hide in your palm, but easy to conceal and work well with a pocket holster.

Then, never had and I mean never had a reliability issue with my PM9 over several thousands of rounds. I shoot several brands of hollow points and different cheap ball ammo when using it as my back up gun in firearm classes that I have taken. Now I do maintain it and change the recoil spring assembly when I feel the need.

[jp8775]

So you lost me? The PM9 is not what is considered a mice gun, or do think of it as one? At $798 retail I would expect it to make my coffee in the morning. I would expect it to be more reliable than my 42 at twice the cost. I would with no hesitation steer someone who has the money to that gun? Personally I would get two Glock 42's

[jp8775]

I have been to Front Site a dozen or so times. There I shoot 1000 plus rounds in 4 days. I have never ever made it through 4 days of shooting that I have not had at least 1 function issue. Nor have I ever seen any one else there including instructors not have at least 1 function issue in 4 days. Therefore I feel that guns do malfunction and as long a they are basically designed as they are to operate they will at some time. You are a lucky man to have the functionality you do but I do not think this represents the general semi auto users. In 44 (I started at 13) years I have been using guns have not one gun I can say never malfunctioned.

[cobb]

So you lost me? The PM9 is not what is considered a mice gun, or do think of it as one? At $798 retail I would expect it to make my coffee in the morning. I would expect it to be more reliable than my 42 at twice the cost. I would with no hesitation steer someone who has the money to that gun? Personally I would get two Glock 42's

Did not you where throwing cost into this factor and what I paid isn't even close to your quoted retail.

[cobb]

I have been to Front Site a dozen or so times. There I shoot 1000 plus rounds in 4 days. I have never ever made it through 4 days of shooting that I have not had at least 1 function issue. Nor have I ever seen any one else there including instructors not have at least 1 function issue in 4 days. Therefore I feel that guns do malfunction and as long a they are basically designed as they are to operate they will at some time. You are a lucky man to have the functionality you do but I do not think this represents the general semi auto users. In 44 (I started at 13) years I have been using guns have not one gun I can say never malfunctioned.

Yes, I have been at Front site, passed a 4 day defensive handgun course and had not one malfunction on my 1911, was witnessed by another member here. I have had a malfunction on occasion when shooting competition but seemed to track it back to something other than the handgun itself except for once that I can recall. Same as training with Suarez, Farnam, Ayoob, Blackwater and a few others, don't remember my gun malfunctions off hand.

[jp8775]

So why was PM9 brought into a mouse debate? Do you consider a pm9 a mouse gun? The g42 has according to what I have seen at my distributor (Bill Hicks) a retail of $399. I think cost does involve itself with gun function discussion's. I have been trying to stay apples to apples. You brought in the pm9 to a mice gun discussion not me. So I assume as you have not answered me you feel it is apples to apple and a mice gun. I do not. You asked me but I still do not know if you do.

This is right off the Kahr web site http://www.kahr.com/pistols/kahr-pm9.asp .
PM9
PM9093 (3.1" Barrel)
Black polymer frame, matte stainless slide
MSRP: $786.00

[cobb]

It was just brought to my attention that Hyatt is taking preorders on the new Glock 42 @ $549

Not sure if that is their "special" price or the MSRP. I was under the impression it was to be sub $400. This will be be very disappointing if true.

Did a quick check on internet dealers and see the Glock 42 as low as $425 shipped and a few others in the $499 range or less, but of course out of stock.
So after things settle down a bit, they might be out there close to the $400 mark.

[jp8775]

So I just ordered a brand new LCP. Never had one but now that I hear they are so reliable I have to find out for my self. Should be here in a few days. More to come.

[cobb]

Never had one but now that I hear they are so reliable I have to find out for my self.

You assume a lot from a single post, but true my daughter and I have had no issues, but then both of us shoot compact guns quite regularly. The LCP is not the nicest gun, crappy sights and not the best trigger, but meant as a very short range gun, it works. And you can probably buy 2 for the price of a Glock and it won't KaBoom on you.

So give us your review to let us know how it works out for you.

[jp8775]

Here is my feelings, I hope I never ever get into a shoot out with any mouse gun. I am going to assume the other guy won't have one so he will be at an advantage to me if I do. A mouse gun is better than nothing if for no other reason there are hundreds of cases where the guy ran at just the sight of a gun. All guns "except some peoples" malfunction. I would find this hard to not get most people to agree on. In most cases (not always)the bigger the gun and the more it cost usually does equate to a better all around gun in a gun fight. Small guns are no fun to shoot for vary long in one sitting, this equates to less training and then to less proficiency all around. No two people will agree in a what gun is better argument as it is too subjective for that reason I use the gun magazines reports, but also look to see how many adds are running in the issue for that particular gun. I once notice that a magazine was trashing a gun left and right, there was not one add for that gun in it. But then they were loving a gun in another report so much I thought they would need room. There was 6 adds for the gun in that issue. So with that in mind you need to be careful. What I do rely on is the hundreds of students I see a month and what they are shooting and how does it function. I feel that's a good indicator. That takes me out of the opinion. It becomes really just fact. A good gun should function as designed with some leeway as to grip and operator proficiency. If you are trying to get some one to buy your gun as their first gun they are most likely not going to be proficient. Those are the guns I like, one that the student says I have only shot a hand gun once and this one is new and I never shot it. (good test right). There is another issue, no one wants to admit they picked a loser. Especially when they do not have money to buy a winner now. For this reason I do not answer in my class what's a bad gun with a brand. I say go to the internet and see how any pages trash it, that's a good indicator to look further into the gun prior to a purchase. That is also why I have dozens of different guns for students to try if they want in private before they buy a gun and are stuck with it.

[cobb]

Here is my feelings, I hope I never ever get into a shoot out with any mouse gun. I am going to assume the other guy won't have one so he will be at an advantage to me if I do. A mouse gun is better than nothing if for no other reason there are hundreds of cases where the guy ran at just the sight of a gun. All guns "except some peoples" malfunction. I would find this hard to not get most people to agree on. In most cases (not always)the bigger the gun and the more it cost usually does equate to a better all around gun in a gun fight. Small guns are no fun to shoot for vary long in one sitting, this equates to less training and then to less proficiency all around. No two people will agree in a what gun is better argument as it is too subjective for that reason I use the gun magazines reports, but also look to see how many adds are running in the issue for that particular gun. I once notice that a magazine was trashing a gun left and right, there was not one add for that gun in it. But then they were loving a gun in another report so much I thought they would need room. There was 6 adds for the gun in that issue. So with that in mind you need to be careful. What I do rely on is the hundreds of students I see a month and what they are shooting and how does it function. I feel that's a good indicator. That takes me out of the opinion. It becomes really just fact. A good gun should function as designed with some leeway as to grip and operator proficiency. If you are trying to get some one to buy your gun as their first gun they are most likely not going to be proficient. Those are the guns I like, one that the student says I have only shot a hand gun once and this one is new and I never shot it. (good test right). There is another issue, no one wants to admit they picked a loser. Especially when they do not have money to buy a winner now. For this reason I do not answer in my class what's a bad gun with a brand. I say go to the internet and see how any pages trash it, that's a good indicator to look further into the gun prior to a purchase. That is also why I have dozens of different guns for students to try if they want in private before they buy a gun and are stuck with it.

You sure assume a lot Joe.
Good luck with your new LCP.

[jp8775]

The Glock 42 does not seem to like PMC 90 grs RN. I just had a student of mine shoot mine and that was what he brought with him. As soon as we got off the PMC all the MF's stopped. I do not even know what to say about target ammo problems. Does that really matter for the overall reliability of a gun? You won't be carrying FMJ 90 grs in it anyway but? So we tried the DB380 with PMC, it was better but still FTF. So I know fleet farm has it. I am going to get some and see if any of my guns have a real distaste for it. I will also try the new LCP with it. It does look real short.

[Evad]

The Glock 42 does not seem to like PMC 90 grs RN. I just had a student of mine shoot mine and that was what he brought with him. As soon as we got off the PMC all the MF's stopped. I do not even know what to say about target ammo problems. Does that really matter for the overall reliability of a gun? You won't be carrying FMJ 90 grs in it anyway but? So we tried the DB380 with PMC, it was better but still FTF. So I know fleet farm has it. I am going to get some and see if any of my guns have a real distaste for it. I will also try the new LCP with it. It does look real short.

That's very "un Glock" like. I hope it's the ammo.

[jp8775]

My micro desert eagle 380 hates the PMC also, and so does the kel-tec p3at, seems fine in the PPK but that gun will shoot anything just wish it was not so heavy. So it looks like nothing seems to like the PMC 90 gr RN. But this could be a batch problem. I am to lazy to set up the chrono but one shooting with me says the PMC seems wimpy. I was not sure I felt that. I am getting 4 more boxes tonight maybe a different batch will solve the problem. I still have no problems with my snifty hot reloads 95 grn or Magtech at all. What I still say, is I shot about 4 boxes through it today and my hand feels fine it is a comfortable gun to shoot the 42 that is. .