So you think your balance beam scale technique is good??

[farmerj]

yeah....

How many are really willing or ready to go dump $1500+ on a powder measure....

Dang it is nice though.

[Rodentman]

» and have been plagued with inconsistent performance and velocity ...»

Sam, wait til you get to be my age.

[Seismic Sam]

That's why I just use a scale that does it all by itself and I just dump it in the case when it's done.

Wow. Not sure if this is a serious reply or not, but if it is it's right out of the Wizard of Oz. Don't look behind the curtain, don't check out if this $X00 automatic powder measure is really throwing the charges it says it is, and just trust to the Omnipotent Wizard of Oz Brand Powder Measure that it is infallible and the amount of powder measured is exactly what the little readout on the scale says it is. This is particularly mind boggling since at least one of the scale manufacturers is totally ignorant of the round-off errors in going from grams to grains with their own scales, and you're willing to blindly trust an automatic machine depending on a scale where the processor was built in China and the software designer doesn't even know what a grain is, much less its critical significance in reloading.

Seismic Sam,
You are making quite a few assumptions here, namely:

1. That I haven't checked if the $X00 automatic powder measure is really throwing the charges it says it is.(I have and it is, consistently)
2. That I am trusting the Omnipotent Wizard of Oz Brand Powder Measure that it is infallible and the amount of powder measured is exactly what the little readout on the scale says it is(I trust it because I have verified it many times. It works, that's why I bought it).
3. That my powder measure/scale combo has a rounding error(it doesn't).
4. That my powder measure/scale combo converts from grams to grains(It doesn't).
5. That my powder measure/scale has a processor that was built in China and the software designer doesn't even know what a grain is, much less its critical significance in reloading(it doesn't).

So, with that added clarification, do you feel a little better about my post?

Totally! You checked it out, and independently weighed the charges multiple times, and they match. Game over. Set. match, point. Your initial post gave no clue as to whether you were joking, fishing for a comeback, or genuinely had no clue about this. Considering how many people come in here and will blindly trust anything digital to actually be telling the truth about what it's measuring, it's an odds-on bet that this was the situation. Your faith in your powder measure was so pure and without reservation that I made you for something you aren't. If I had to pay $10 for every time I'm wrong about stuff like this and get $10 everytime I'm right, I'd be cash positive with a substantial balance.

[Seismic Sam]

That's why I just use a scale that does it all by itself and I just dump it in the case when it's done.

Wow. Not sure if this is a serious reply or not, but if it is it's right out of the Wizard of Oz. Don't look behind the curtain, don't check out if this $X00 automatic powder measure is really throwing the charges it says it is, and just trust to the Omnipotent Wizard of Oz Brand Powder Measure that it is infallible and the amount of powder measured is exactly what the little readout on the scale says it is. This is particularly mind boggling since at least one of the scale manufacturers is totally ignorant of the round-off errors in going from grams to grains with their own scales, and you're willing to blindly trust an automatic machine depending on a scale where the processor was built in China and the software designer doesn't even know what a grain is, much less its critical significance in reloading.

You've obviously never seen Erud's powder measure.

Holy shyte!! No, I have never seen a powder measure like that. If I had seen that picture I wouldn't have said anything to begin with.

[crbutler]

The other factor is accuracy vs. precision.

If you work up your own loads, accuracy is not all that big of a deal- within reason, of course- who cares if your personal powder scale calls it 25gr or 24 gr as long as it is always the same?

That is why you are supposed to work up loads. There are all kinds of variables. Try and remove what you can. Using the same gun, same lot of powder, same bullet etc. is that point.

As to bottle necked pistol rounds- neck tension and consistent crimp (and thus trimming to identical length) are quite important, especially for trying to get small SD's. For not busting chrono at an IPSC match, load till the lowest round in a 20 round string makes it, and you won't have problems (assuming you don't do something herky with the chrono when you are checking it...) At 25 yards or less, a SD of 50 is pretty meaningless in the 9x25 as far as POI.

[Erud]

Wow. Not sure if this is a serious reply or not, but if it is it's right out of the Wizard of Oz. Don't look behind the curtain, don't check out if this $X00 automatic powder measure is really throwing the charges it says it is, and just trust to the Omnipotent Wizard of Oz Brand Powder Measure that it is infallible and the amount of powder measured is exactly what the little readout on the scale says it is. This is particularly mind boggling since at least one of the scale manufacturers is totally ignorant of the round-off errors in going from grams to grains with their own scales, and you're willing to blindly trust an automatic machine depending on a scale where the processor was built in China and the software designer doesn't even know what a grain is, much less its critical significance in reloading.

Seismic Sam,
You are making quite a few assumptions here, namely:

1. That I haven't checked if the $X00 automatic powder measure is really throwing the charges it says it is.(I have and it is, consistently)
2. That I am trusting the Omnipotent Wizard of Oz Brand Powder Measure that it is infallible and the amount of powder measured is exactly what the little readout on the scale says it is(I trust it because I have verified it many times. It works, that's why I bought it).
3. That my powder measure/scale combo has a rounding error(it doesn't).
4. That my powder measure/scale combo converts from grams to grains(It doesn't).
5. That my powder measure/scale has a processor that was built in China and the software designer doesn't even know what a grain is, much less its critical significance in reloading(it doesn't).

So, with that added clarification, do you feel a little better about my post?

Totally! You checked it out, and independently weighed the charges multiple times, and they match. Game over. Set. match, point. Your initial post gave no clue as to whether you were joking, fishing for a comeback, or genuinely had no clue about this. Considering how many people come in here and will blindly trust anything digital to actually be telling the truth about what it's measuring, it's an odds-on bet that this was the situation. Your faith in your powder measure was so pure and without reservation that I made you for something you aren't. If I had to pay $10 for every time I'm wrong about stuff like this and get $10 everytime I'm right, I'd be cash positive with a substantial balance.

Fair enough.


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[Erud]

Opps, double. Stupid phone.

[crbutler]

As an aside, where do you buy something like that?

My google-fu seems to say either you can or can't and its not registering the manufacturer.

[Mn01r6]

As an aside, where do you buy something like that?

My google-fu seems to say either you can or can't and its not registering the manufacturer.

My Google fu turned up the following in the second result: call the number on the thrower in the picture on this page. You don't buy it, you lease it for 25 years (to keep commercial loaders away) and it is currently a 2 year wait and costs more than a few grand.

[crbutler]

I got the same thing from a 3rd person web site (snipershide) on one of the top ones. To me that is not definitive.... I could not find a site that sells it, or a manufacturers site.

I hope the guy who has it would let me know how he got it.

Is it worth it? I dunno. Maybe. Hope the OP on it says... I figure I could afford it if its the next thing to sliced bread.

[Mn01r6]

425-239-9100 looks like the number. Call tomorrow and report back!

If I had a 2 year waiting list, I would probably not bother setting up a website either.

[Erud]

No web site, it's a 1-man operation in Arkansas. He used to build them part time, but last year quit his full time job to devote to the Primetheus. I got mine a little over a year ago and was quoted a year wait when I placed the order. Actual delivery time was just over 5 months, as I recall - can't say whether that is common or not.

The Prometheus will throw a charge to within a single kernel of the intended charge weight every time. I have a Sartorius GD503 that I was using with an Omega Powder trickler before getting this, so I am able to double check powder charges to the nearest .005 grain and it is always right on(barring the occasional over-throw which is easy to spot). A single kernel of Varget weighs about .025 gr, so when I am throwing 47.2 gr for my Palma load, every single charge is between 46.190 and 47.210. It takes just under 10 seconds for it to throw this charge and be ready to dump it in the case. The GD503 with the Omega is capable of the same level of precision, but literally takes at least 4 times as long. Using it, I can load 150 rounds per hour of the absolute best long range ammo I am capable of producing.

Is it worth it? It is to me. They are not cheap by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't normally have a lot of free time, and my standards and requirements for ammo are pretty high. I have put so much time and money into competitive shooting over the last 8 years(not to mention blood, swear and tears) that in the grand scheme of things, the cost is not really the deciding factor. I have shot over 35 days of competitions in each of the last 4 years and have over 40 on the calendar for this year. I load a lot of ammo every year and I need it to be perfect. .1 grain variances and rounding errors are not acceptable. If the Prometheus gives me more time to shoot or dry-fire practice, or spend time with my wife, etc while still delivering the quality of ammo that I need, it's worth whatever it cost.

It definitely is not for everyone, and here are a couple of caveats:

1. The Prometheus is not good for load development. If you need to load a bunch of 5 or 10 round lots of different charge weights for testing, you will want to use something else. It takes a little bit of time to set the charge weight. It probably take me a half hour the first time while figuring out how the whole thing works, it takes me just over 5 minutes now.

2. It is best suited for larger-kernel extruded powders. Varget, etc are perfect. It will work with other stuff, but not nearly as well. The Hodgdon extreme powders are remarkably consistent in kernel weight and size and this is very important to the performance of the machine. You would not want to be loading your pistol ammo with flake powder or the like with it. I shoot 3 different rounds in competition; 2 use Varget and the 3rd uses H4831sc. I've decided to move the hot rod long range rifle using 4831sc to the back of the safe until September 2015 while I focus on .308 for all mid and long range prone shooting. So, Varget will be the only powder going through it for the next 16 months or so.

Anyways, I guess that's a pretty good summary of how it works. I'm happy to answer any other questions anyone has. I have a 45-second video of it throwing a charge and me checking it on the GD 503, but I have no idea how to put it up here.

Seismic Sam, sorry for the thread hijack.


Erik


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[Erud]

Also, Mn01r6 is correct on the phone number and 25 year lease. Brand Cole is the man who will answer if you call, and he can explain the idea behind the lease. It is indeed meant to keep it from being used commercially - I believe Mr. Cole was burned by a pretty high-profile shooter early on, and that is what prompted him to lease the machines vs sell.


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[Seismic Sam]

Geez, I come back at you with my usual reloading troll 2x4 on the head tactic, and as it turns out you actually DO have a magic Wizard of Oz powder measure that's good to .01 grain, which means the guts contain a real, live 4 place Sartorius analytical balance of some sort. Didn't even think such a thing was possible, much less running around loose and dispensing powder to an accuracy of a single particle. What are the chances I'd pick the ONE guy on this board who has one to go off on about blindly trusting powder measures?? Damn, that's downright funny, even if it is at my own expense.

[Deputyhiro]

If I only had a brain.....

if-i-only-had-a-brain.gif (76.07 KB) Viewed 3700 times