Process to apply for the Flordia C&C reciprocity

[xd ED]

I now see a point.

That they use the term 'applicant' now confuses the heck out of me.
What exactly is a non-resident applying for?
I don't see that someone from ...Alabama- a state that recognizes North Dakota permits needs to 'apply' for anything, they should be good to go in NoDak with their Alabama permit.

I'm stumped on that.

But, I disagree with:

But you can find that ND recognizes UT, AZ and FL permit to carry and no provisions, exceptions or exemptions pertaining to that recognition when a Minnesota resident or other state's resident is carrying in ND under one of those permits.

My take is they are clear that you cannot carry in North Dakota if your state of residence (where you hold a drivers license) does not reciprocate with North Dakota.

Perhaps a more carefully worded inquiry than I first sent, to someone in authority (not the public Information Officer of the AG's Office) can explain this, as I cannot.

I appreciate the discussion

[cobb]

What exactly is a non-resident applying for?

A ND permit.
Don't know fully understand that either.

But, I disagree with:

But you can find that ND recognizes UT, AZ and FL permit to carry and no provisions, exceptions or exemptions pertaining to that recognition when a Minnesota resident or other state's resident is carrying in ND under one of those permits.

My take is they are clear that you cannot carry in North Dakota if your state of residence (where you hold a drivers license) does not reciprocate with North Dakota.

Where are you getting this from? There is reference in the statute referring to applying for a ND permit to carry, but I do not see it otherwise.

Maybe someone else will chime in with another perspective instead of you and I beating our heads against the wall.

[IDPA Shooter]

" Non-ND residents must have a valid concealed weapon license from their home state, which state must have reciprocity with North Dakota. The home state is determined by the driver’s license"

The US Concealed Carry Association is advising its certified instructors, that at the present time, there is no legal way for a MN resident to carry in North Dakota. This came from their director of state permit compliance who happens to live in MN. I was with Cobb previously , but with the USCCA and many others saying it is either not allowed or questionable lead me to advise all our students via newsletter that it is uncertain if they can carry and we recommend, when in doubt, stay out.

I had personally called the ND AG's office and written them last year, but they were either unable or unwilling to answer. The phone person just said we don't provide legal advice, nice!

[xd ED]

Whet are you reading that suggests a 3rd state permit-ie AZ, FL, UT is even in play?

62.1-04-03.
b The applicant can demonstrate that the applicant is a resident of this state by 
providing a copy of a valid driver's license or state-issued identification card from this state that establishes personal identification through photographic means and shows the applicant's name associated with a valid residential street address in this state or the applicant possesses a valid driver's license from the applicant's state of residence that establishes personal identification through photographic means and shows the applicant's name associated with a valid residential street address and a valid concealed weapons license from the applicant's state of residence, which state has reciprocity with this state under section 62.1-04-03.1;

This, to me, is the either/ or for residency:

You either prove you live in NoDak, or you prove you live in a state that has reciprocity with NoDak; no provisions for any other (AZ FL UT/ 3rd state) permit.
And again, what the word 'applicant' is dong there confuses me, as it’s my take that a non--resident (of NoDak) can use their home state permit, assuming their home state has NoDak reciprocity.

I agree this needs another perspective.

[xd ED]

" Non-ND residents must have a valid concealed weapon license from their home state, which state must have reciprocity with North Dakota. The home state is determined by the driver’s license"

The US Concealed Carry Association is advising its certified instructors, that at the present time, there is no legal way for a MN resident to carry in North Dakota. This came from their director of state permit compliance who happens to live in MN. I was with Cobb previously , but with the USCCA and many others saying it is either not allowed or questionable lead me to advise all our students via newsletter that it is uncertain if they can carry and we recommend, when in doubt, stay out.

I had personally called the ND AG's office and written them last year, but they were either unable or unwilling to answer. The phone person just said we don't provide legal advice, nice!

Thanks for chiming in.
I appreciate the added information.
That we agree is secondary.
I truly wish cobb was correct.
And yes, communication from the North Dakota AGs office is less than impressive

[cobb]

Whet are you reading that suggests a 3rd state permit-ie AZ, FL, UT is even in play?

If this is directed at me, I was going by the ND's Attorney Generals web site.
http://www.ag.nd.gov/BCI/CW/reciprocity.htm

[xd ED]

Whet are you reading that suggests a 3rd state permit-ie AZ, FL, UT is even in play?

If this is directed at me, I was going by the ND's Attorney Generals web site.
http://www.ag.nd.gov/BCI/CW/reciprocity.htm

I agree those states have reciprocity, and residents of those states, can carry in NoDak.
But I maintain the bottom line is one's state of residence must have reciprocity with NoDak for that person to carry in NoDak.

[cobb]

" Non-ND residents must have a valid concealed weapon license from their home state, which state must have reciprocity with North Dakota. The home state is determined by the driver’s license"

The US Concealed Carry Association is advising its certified instructors, that at the present time, there is no legal way for a MN resident to carry in North Dakota. This came from their director of state permit compliance who happens to live in MN. I was with Cobb previously , but with the USCCA and many others saying it is either not allowed or questionable lead me to advise all our students via newsletter that it is uncertain if they can carry and we recommend, when in doubt, stay out.

I had personally called the ND AG's office and written them last year, but they were either unable or unwilling to answer. The phone person just said we don't provide legal advice, nice!

Thanks for chiming in.
I appreciate the added information.
That we agree is secondary.
I truly wish cobb was correct.
And yes, communication from the North Dakota AGs office is less than impressive

So the way the ND application statue is written, to get a ND nonresident permit the applicant's state of resident must have reciprocity with ND. If a person has a valid permit from their state of residency and that state has reciprocity with ND, why would that person need a ND nonresident permit?

Either the stature is written incorrectly, or what I think is the current change in ND statute pertaining to issuing a ND nonresident permit is being mis-interpreted or represented by some officials in ND.

[cobb]

I agree those states have reciprocity, and residents of those states, can carry in NoDak.

Still don't see that, but that is a moot point.

What matters is the interpretation of the law, although a bit skewed, by the officials in ND. All the discussion or debate that we have here will mean nothing to the ND judge that a Minnesota resident may stand in front of for violating ND's carry laws.

So bottom line as of now, as a Minnesota resident, do not carry under any permit in North Dakota.

[xd ED]

I agree those states have reciprocity, and residents of those states, can carry in NoDak.

Still don't see that, but that is a moot point.

What matters is the interpretation of the law, although a bit skewed, by the officials in ND. All the discussion or debate that we have here will mean nothing to the ND judge that a Minnesota resident may stand in from of for violating ND's carry laws.

So bottom line as of now, as a Minnesota resident do not carry in North Dakota.

On that point we agree.
If I had to guess, the North Dakota AG recognizes they have a poorly worded, and perhaps wrongly spirited law on their hands.
Perhaps their legislature (or our Comm of Public Safety/ BCA) will do something to correct or resolve the issue.
But until that happens it will do nothing for the MN resident on the side of the road in NoDak.
Good discussion.

[cobb]

Now the possible issues with all the people over the years that have applied and received an Arizona, Florida or Utah permit and plan to use it to carry in North Dakota.

I always tell people that they must keep current with carry laws of states that they plan to carry in. I get comments in class that I should offer a handout that shows what states recognize what other states permits, but explain that the laws change often and the handout could be outdated within a month. North Dakota is another good example as to why I do not offer this type of handout. I do encourage going to several websites like handgunlaw.us for info and links to the individual states web sites for current carry laws.

[xd ED]

The best advice I've heard is to check with the AG's office of the state(s) in question, because as you say laws do change, and that appears to be the source of this confusion. I hope no one gets bit by this.
In my limited experience, the various states' AG's websites offer much better general information, and specific responses than what I've seen from North Dakota.

[LarryFlew]

Considering my CCW app has an update about every other week a handout would not be good for very long. I recheck it every time we move to another state.

[cobb]

Just called the AG of ND and got quite the run around. To sum up the side stepping I was basically told this. Information pertaining to reciprocity with ND is clearly listed on their web site. Florida is on the ND reciprocity list and the ND AG says I should contact Florida about the restrictions of carrying under a Florida permit in North Dakota.

[xd ED]

That's pretty amazing advice.

If one had a connection in North Dakota, that resident could perhaps contact their elected representative and ask them to press the AG for an answer of substance/ legal opinion.

Reading they No Dak AG's website is an exercise at chasing your tail until you run into the swamp.

Given that any legal opinion will ultimately have to come from an interpretation of the statute, and that(the statute) makes no mention of third state permits, I think the legislature will ultimately be the party to fix this, if even to the point where it can be understood.