New Generation of Shooters

[andrewP]

Here is another article from American Handgunner magazine titled "Unlikely Allies" that is also on this subject. Author goes by the name John Connor.
http://americanhandgunner.com/unlikely-allies/

Great example of how people *should* treat each other.

[goaliemn]

As president of the Pink Pistols, I hear stories like ones mentioned in the article all the time. Someone may be gay, act a bit feminine or flamboyant, and people assume they are idiots when it comes to guns. We have many members that don't "look" the gun part, but have a gun safe that would be bigger and fuller than most of the guys that insult them for how they look.

The Shotgun news had an article on their website acouple of years ago about the pink pistols. most of the replies posted to it were basically death threats against any of "those kind" showing up at their ranges. It shocked me and just helped perpetuate the stereotype of old boys club when it comes to guns. Its pushing away many straight shooters who are gay friendly, but then see the lack of it at the range.

I was working at the show at Bills last weekend and so many of the comments I overheard made me sick. The anti-gay comments/slurs about guys and some of the off-the-wall conspiracy theories being thrown around just keep pushing new people away and towards the anti-side. If I were someone just getting into guns and was more liberal than conservative, some of the comments would've pushed me away from guns and wanting to take them away from some of the people I overheard.

[karlobag]

As president of the Pink Pistols, I hear stories like ones mentioned in the article all the time. Someone may be gay, act a bit feminine or flamboyant, and people assume they are idiots when it comes to guns. We have many members that don't "look" the gun part, but have a gun safe that would be bigger and fuller than most of the guys that insult them for how they look.

The Shotgun news had an article on their website acouple of years ago about the pink pistols. most of the replies posted to it were basically death threats against any of "those kind" showing up at their ranges. It shocked me and just helped perpetuate the stereotype of old boys club when it comes to guns. Its pushing away many straight shooters who are gay friendly, but then see the lack of it at the range.

I was working at the show at Bills last weekend and so many of the comments I overheard made me sick. The anti-gay comments/slurs about guys and some of the off-the-wall conspiracy theories being thrown around just keep pushing new people away and towards the anti-side. If I were someone just getting into guns and was more liberal than conservative, some of the comments would've pushed me away from guns and wanting to take them away from some of the people I overheard.

Goaliemn,

I am sorry to hear you story from Bill's show. Behavior like that is just inexcusable. Groups like the Pink Pistols have been HUGE 2A supporters in the battle zone that is California and around the rest of the country. Alienating others due to their looks, skin color, or lifestyle does no one any good. One of my favorite shooting partners is a daughter of a friend, who is fully tattooed, has too many piercings to count, and often has half her head shaved. Here mom was VERY anti gun, but now has come around after seeing the joy that her daughter gets from target shooting. My $.02 worth, is the only way to grow our sport, is to invite "non-traditional" groups to join us.

[yukonjasper]

For me, I see the issue as not necessarily a gun owner issue as much as a generational, educational and sociological issue. The prejudices, ignorance and bigotry are out there in society as a whole and are magnified when you have disperate groups that share a hobby or pastime. Ordinarily these groups would never intersect and can choose to not interact with each other. This self imposed segrigation works as long as numbers and activity of the other side don't force the interaction. Because the shooting sports has such universal appeal, the conflict is inevitable.

The personalities of the participants matters more than the politics, religious views, sexual orientation etc. The upshot is that politics, religious views, sexual orientation etc. forge the personalities or vice versa, so they are linked, but the ability of the individual to act in a calm, rational, intelligent way when they encounter persons or situations that they are not accustomed to the money shot. How do you treat people? Do you have a basic respect for people in general and specifically strangers? I would bet that one reason many of us carry is that we have a basic distrust of our fellow human beings and believe that their motives in life are to bring harm to us and those we love. There are those people out there, but, obviously, not in sufficient number to fulfil the "operator" "Sheepdog" fantasies that many in the gun community seem to live under. In my mind the debate here is a microcosm of what has happened in society at large - widespread distrust - alienation - belief that respect is owed not earned - lack of general civility and manners - elevation of the self/ego above all else - lack of faith (not just religious) - lack of compassion - disassociation with what society - isolationism.

Anyway - the upshot of all of my Psych and human relations minor yada yada is that, in my opinion, we generally do not treat others outside our little bubble very well and don't care to change that because we have convinced ourselves that they can't do anything for us anyway. The island mentality is reiforced with the keyboard commando culture that doesn't foster actual human interaction. That is its own thesis as to why that is and I'll leave it alone .

[Erik_Pakieser]

I was working at the show at Bills last weekend and so many of the comments I overheard made me sick. The anti-gay comments/slurs about guys and some of the off-the-wall conspiracy theories being thrown around just keep pushing new people away and towards the anti-side. If I were someone just getting into guns and was more liberal than conservative, some of the comments would've pushed me away from guns and wanting to take them away from some of the people I overheard.

When I work the MWCA Shows and other shooting events I regularly encounter people who go out of their way to prove how conservative (and bigoted) they are. Frankly it's not just dissapointing, but downright sad. I've given the cold shoulder to more than one weirdo at a gun show who approached my table and made some nutball comment, seeking approval.

Everyone is welcome in the classes I teach. No particular religous, social or political opinions are expressed, nor expected! We only seek those who are serious about self-defense and willing to learn. If people can't stand the idea of someone who's different being in a class with them, they can go take a class from someone else.

[Bessy]

Garbage from a self-important twit. This idiot repeatedly uses derogatory words to describe conservatives, makes fun of their beliefs and derides religion. Oh, but then he condescendingly informs them that they are fools if they don't drop their guard a bit. "Childish" is about the kindest way I can describe that.

Also, at some point, the topic he THINKS he's writing about, is not the topic he's writing about. 20 % of an article dedicated to describing himself and his apparently amazing girlfriend (funky hair, big degree, govt. clearance - yeah, we're impressed already ) is enough to obliterate the substance of the message he thought he was sending.

Knowing Chris personally, I can say you couldn't be farther from the truth. He's one of the most modest self composed and well spoken individuals I've met. While I don't always agree with what he says, I always give his opinion fair thought, and his reasoning has changed my mind on several issues.

I believe his description of his "Amazing ex-girlfriend", was solely there to explain that despite her non traditional appearance she possessed many values that conservatives such as yourself would find admirable had they bothered to get to know her.

I have seen first hand how many people get turned off to shooting because they didn't feel welcome. I've seen minorities get questioned by overzealous ranger officers about member status, while those that "look the part" are unmolested.

One other member said "I however suspect, if these new shooters the author is speaking of are so superficial they get so easily offended, they won't be in for the gun rights fight anyhow."
That is a piss poor attitude, here is why.

We are talking about NEW shooters. People who aren't invested in our sport. They have an interest or a curiosity, not a commitment. like any interest it needs to cultivated until it stands on it's own, util they are hooked. They never get to that point if you drive them off. The whole man up or get out argument is a crappy one. I wouldn't choose to spend my time around people who I felt hated me. Which is probably a big reason i'm not active on this forum.

When I joined at pine island it was a dinky little club, just starting USPSA, most of our those USPSA shooters aren't "Traditional Conservatives". When we built the new club, that new blood provided quite a bit of the blood sweat and tears necessary to make it happen. We now have one of the best run, most active clubs in MN now, and it's thanks at least in part (i'd say a large part) to people that would have walked away had they been met with a poor unwelcoming attitude.

When I started 3-gun matches on Sunday down here, I was told there would be no attendance because church is on Sunday, we got 60+ shooters most of then younger shooters. Times are changing.

Like it or not the shooting sports needs to have better ambassadors to the younger generation, regardless of the political/sexual orientation. If you can't see that you are blind.

[andrewP]

Garbage from a self-important twit. This idiot repeatedly uses derogatory words to describe conservatives, makes fun of their beliefs and derides religion. Oh, but then he condescendingly informs them that they are fools if they don't drop their guard a bit. "Childish" is about the kindest way I can describe that.

Also, at some point, the topic he THINKS he's writing about, is not the topic he's writing about. 20 % of an article dedicated to describing himself and his apparently amazing girlfriend (funky hair, big degree, govt. clearance - yeah, we're impressed already ) is enough to obliterate the substance of the message he thought he was sending.

Knowing Chris personally, I can say you couldn't be farther from the truth. He's one of the most modest self composed and well spoken individuals I've met. While I don't always agree with what he says, I always give his opinion fair thought, and his reasoning has changed my mind on several issues.

I believe his description of his "Amazing ex-girlfriend", was solely there to explain that despite her non traditional appearance she possessed many values that conservatives such as yourself would find admirable had they bothered to get to know her.

I have seen first hand how many people get turned off to shooting because they didn't feel welcome. I've seen minorities get questioned by overzealous ranger officers about member status, while those that "look the part" are unmolested.

One other member said "I however suspect, if these new shooters the author is speaking of are so superficial they get so easily offended, they won't be in for the gun rights fight anyhow."
That is a piss poor attitude, here is why.

We are talking about NEW shooters. People who aren't invested in our sport. They have an interest or a curiosity, not a commitment. like any interest it needs to cultivated until it stands on it's own, util they are hooked. They never get to that point if you drive them off. The whole man up or get out argument is a crappy one. I wouldn't choose to spend my time around people who I felt hated me. Which is probably a big reason i'm not active on this forum.

When I joined at pine island it was a dinky little club, just starting USPSA, most of our those USPSA shooters aren't "Traditional Conservatives". When we built the new club, that new blood provided quite a bit of the blood sweat and tears necessary to make it happen. We now have one of the best run, most active clubs in MN now, and it's thanks at least in part (i'd say a large part) to people that would have walked away had they been met with a poor unwelcoming attitude.

When I started 3-gun matches on Sunday down here, I was told there would be no attendance because church is on Sunday, we got 60+ shooters most of then younger shooters. Times are changing.

Like it or not the shooting sports needs to have better ambassadors to the younger generation, regardless of the political/sexual orientation. If you can't see that you are blind.

I think the action shooting community in general is pretty accepting, at least as compared to the greater shooting community. Heck, Oakdale USPSA is run by a guy with a shaved head and a bunch of piercings who looks like he'd be right at home in a mosh pit at a metal show. The participants range from people who've just bought their first gun and heard about how they might have fun with it up through people who've been shooting all their lives. There are people of all ages and appearances. There's even an older couple that comes out on a regular basis, and while they're not the fastest shooters, you can tell that they're having a great time and doing it together. Heck, they have matching clothing and equipment! His M&P is black, hers is black and pink. It's downright cute, and they're welcomed by everyone. I was welcomed right away too, and I have long hair and am usually a few days (or even weeks) late for a shave. They made sure I knew how to be safe and then turned me loose to have fun. I can't really speak for what happens at other times, but the USPSA folks, at least, are awesome.

[Rooster17]

goaliemn put it best. As a hardcore libertarian I really don't care who you are, what you believe, or what your sexual orientation is. If anything we need more groups like the Pink pistols. We have too many morons representing the Gun Community.

As far as prayer breakfasts go... who cares? I do believe in a higher power but by no means am I a religious nut. One thing I love about NASCAR is that there is a prayer before every race. Makes me believe America might actually have a chance. It's not the prayer itself, its just that they don't care who they offend and they shouldn't. If you like watching races then it shouldn't be that big of a deal to you. Kind of like gun rights.

[Bessy]

Garbage from a self-important twit. This idiot repeatedly uses derogatory words to describe conservatives, makes fun of their beliefs and derides religion. Oh, but then he condescendingly informs them that they are fools if they don't drop their guard a bit. "Childish" is about the kindest way I can describe that.

Also, at some point, the topic he THINKS he's writing about, is not the topic he's writing about. 20 % of an article dedicated to describing himself and his apparently amazing girlfriend (funky hair, big degree, govt. clearance - yeah, we're impressed already ) is enough to obliterate the substance of the message he thought he was sending.

Knowing Chris personally, I can say you couldn't be farther from the truth. He's one of the most modest self composed and well spoken individuals I've met. While I don't always agree with what he says, I always give his opinion fair thought, and his reasoning has changed my mind on several issues.

I believe his description of his "Amazing ex-girlfriend", was solely there to explain that despite her non traditional appearance she possessed many values that conservatives such as yourself would find admirable had they bothered to get to know her.

I have seen first hand how many people get turned off to shooting because they didn't feel welcome. I've seen minorities get questioned by overzealous ranger officers about member status, while those that "look the part" are unmolested.

One other member said "I however suspect, if these new shooters the author is speaking of are so superficial they get so easily offended, they won't be in for the gun rights fight anyhow."
That is a piss poor attitude, here is why.

We are talking about NEW shooters. People who aren't invested in our sport. They have an interest or a curiosity, not a commitment. like any interest it needs to cultivated until it stands on it's own, util they are hooked. They never get to that point if you drive them off. The whole man up or get out argument is a crappy one. I wouldn't choose to spend my time around people who I felt hated me. Which is probably a big reason i'm not active on this forum.

When I joined at pine island it was a dinky little club, just starting USPSA, most of our those USPSA shooters aren't "Traditional Conservatives". When we built the new club, that new blood provided quite a bit of the blood sweat and tears necessary to make it happen. We now have one of the best run, most active clubs in MN now, and it's thanks at least in part (i'd say a large part) to people that would have walked away had they been met with a poor unwelcoming attitude.

When I started 3-gun matches on Sunday down here, I was told there would be no attendance because church is on Sunday, we got 60+ shooters most of then younger shooters. Times are changing.

Like it or not the shooting sports needs to have better ambassadors to the younger generation, regardless of the political/sexual orientation. If you can't see that you are blind.

I think the action shooting community in general is pretty accepting, at least as compared to the greater shooting community. Heck, Oakdale USPSA is run by a guy with a shaved head and a bunch of piercings who looks like he'd be right at home in a mosh pit at a metal show. The participants range from people who've just bought their first gun and heard about how they might have fun with it up through people who've been shooting all their lives. There are people of all ages and appearances. There's even an older couple that comes out on a regular basis, and while they're not the fastest shooters, you can tell that they're having a great time and doing it together. Heck, they have matching clothing and equipment! His M&P is black, hers is black and pink. It's downright cute, and they're welcomed by everyone. I was welcomed right away too, and I have long hair and am usually a few days (or even weeks) late for a shave. They made sure I knew how to be safe and then turned me loose to have fun. I can't really speak for what happens at other times, but the USPSA folks, at least, are awesome.

I hate to break it to you but the guy who runs Oakdale USPSA is pretty burned out. Hasn't really shot the last two years and is under constant scrutiny from the "old guard" at the oakdale range. I'm not saying he wouldn't be burned out otherwise, but the constant fight just to keep uspsa going at that club isn't helping. I feel for Tim in a big big way..... At oakdale you have people beating down the door to shoot uspsa, and "old guard" still fights it. Here at pine island we have a club BUILT to shoot it... and we have to evangelize to get oakdale's numbers. I feel like that young pierced man is very under appreciated. Next time you see him.. tell him how much he rocks.

I will say this. I see a lot of bickering back and forth in this thread about old vs new generation, and to me it's all bunch of bs. There are lazy jerkwads in every single generation, I know I see them every day. There are also a bunch of hard working folks in every generation... luckily I get a chance to see them most days as well. Being young doesn't entitle you to be treated like a princess, and by the same token being old doesn't entitle you to treat everyone younger and different than you like crap.

[andrewP]

I hate to break it to you but the guy who runs Oakdale USPSA is pretty burned out. Hasn't really shot the last two years and is under constant scrutiny from the "old guard" at the oakdale range. I'm not saying he wouldn't be burned out otherwise, but the constant fight just to keep uspsa going at that club isn't helping. I feel for Tim in a big big way..... At oakdale you have people beating down the door to shoot uspsa, and "old guard" still fights it. Here at pine island we have a club BUILT to shoot it... and we have to evangelize to get oakdale's numbers. I feel like that young pierced man is very under appreciated. Next time you see him.. tell him how much he rocks.

I will say this. I see a lot of bickering back and forth in this thread about old vs new generation, and to me it's all bunch of bs. There are lazy jerkwads in every single generation, I know I see them every day. There are also a bunch of hard working folks in every generation... luckily I get a chance to see them most days as well. Being young doesn't entitle you to be treated like a princess, and by the same token being old doesn't entitle you to treat everyone younger and different than you like crap.

Yeah, I know Tim fights hard for us, and I think most of us appreciate it. I don't necessarily get to talk to him much, but next time I see him in person, I'll try to remember to thank him. I always help with setup and teardown, so I figure I'm at least doing what I can in terms of helping to support the group.

Re: Pine Island evangelism - I'd love to come shoot with you guys too, but I have to work every Wednesday night, so it's just not doable for me, even if 76 miles each way sounded like a good idea.

I 100% agree with you about the jerks in every generation thing; I wish it wasn't that way. Like I said upthread, that second linked article, about some of the "old guard" being friendly to newbies is the way people should treat each other. Be friendly and respectful and you'll likely get the same in return.

[bensdad]

When I joined at pine island it was a dinky little club, just starting USPSA, most of our those USPSA shooters aren't "Traditional Conservatives". When we built the new club, that new blood provided quite a bit of the blood sweat and tears necessary to make it happen. We now have one of the best run, most active clubs in MN now, and it's thanks at least in part (i'd say a large part) to people that would have walked away had they been met with a poor unwelcoming attitude.

When I started 3-gun matches on Sunday down here, I was told there would be no attendance because church is on Sunday, we got 60+ shooters most of then younger shooters. Times are changing.

Like it or not the shooting sports needs to have better ambassadors to the younger generation, regardless of the political/sexual orientation. If you can't see that you are blind.

Do you not realize how spectacularly you have DISproved the author's (and your own) point? The author (Chris) may bake you a cheesecake every Saturday, he still writes like a self-important twit. His "acceptmeandlovemeIneedIneedIneed" tone is juvenile.

You called me a conservative. I'm not. Who's the one making assumptions about people? The only difference between me and Chris is that I don't parade my pedigree around and beg/demand acceptance. I got over myself in about 8th grade.

There's a sign in my shop that says, "NO WHINING". Every human being I've ever met is welcome to come in, sit down, shoot the breeze, argue politics, brag about sexploits, show off a new gun, make fun of my tractor (careful on that one) and drink some coffee. JUST DON'T WHINE. It bothers the grown-ups. If you can't see that, you're blind.

[Holland&Holland]

When I joined at pine island it was a dinky little club, just starting USPSA, most of our those USPSA shooters aren't "Traditional Conservatives". When we built the new club, that new blood provided quite a bit of the blood sweat and tears necessary to make it happen. We now have one of the best run, most active clubs in MN now, and it's thanks at least in part (i'd say a large part) to people that would have walked away had they been met with a poor unwelcoming attitude.

When I started 3-gun matches on Sunday down here, I was told there would be no attendance because church is on Sunday, we got 60+ shooters most of then younger shooters. Times are changing.

Like it or not the shooting sports needs to have better ambassadors to the younger generation, regardless of the political/sexual orientation. If you can't see that you are blind.

Do you not realize how spectacularly you have DISproved the author's (and your own) point? The author (Chris) may bake you a cheesecake every Saturday, he still writes like a self-important twit. His "acceptmeandlovemeIneedIneedIneed" tone is juvenile.

You called me a conservative. I'm not. Who's the one making assumptions about people? The only difference between me and Chris is that I don't parade my pedigree around and beg/demand acceptance. I got over myself in about 8th grade.

There's a sign in my shop that says, "NO WHINING". Every human being I've ever met is welcome to come in, sit down, shoot the breeze, argue politics, brag about sexploits, show off a new gun, make fun of my tractor (careful on that one) and drink some coffee. JUST DON'T WHINE. It bothers the grown-ups. If you can't see that, you're blind.

Soooo.... this is not whining? Just checking

[bensdad]

Soooo.... this is not whining? Just checking

Too-shay!

H&H FTW.

But, like I tell my kids, it's different when I do it.