Rifle Cleaning

Discussion of rifles, shotguns, and muzzleloaders

Rifle Cleaning

Postby Grayskies on Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:12 pm

i have been reading the internet (ok, bad idea) on rifle cleaning... Is nothing straight forward anymore...

So nylon or brass bore brushes?

I am looking at a 1 piece rod, fleet farm's gunstore has a pro-shot one.

Bore Guides, worth it? I have not heard of them before...

Anything else I am missing?

Either I am getting old or things are getting more complex. (kind of suspecting both)

(i would so love a basic to advanced bolt action rifle class, probably can't aford it :( )

Note: rifle scoped .270 bolt synthetic stock.
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Re: Rifle Cleaning

Postby kowalzekc on Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:20 pm

I just stick with what I know, brass brush and a proper length cleaning rod or bore snake. Hoppes #9 cleaning patches, little oil and she's ready for round 2.
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Re: Rifle Cleaning

Postby farmerj on Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:25 pm

think of it this way.

A sectional rod has 3-5 joints that will each hit your muzzle should you feed it through that way. a one piece does not.

A poly coated road will pick up debris in the plastic.

A nylon brush and even a boresnake are poly material.

Plastic material is rather abrasive really. Take a nylon rope and see what happens when you rub it over a piece of wood or even steel.

Don't forget to use rod (muzzle) guides when you are cleaning.

Find a process that works for you and enjoy an afternoon.
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Re: Rifle Cleaning

Postby OldmanFCSA on Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:24 pm

Boy can I have fun with this topic.

One piece rod only with swivel handle on ball bearings.
Delrin action/chamber guide to keep solvents out of trigger group.
Stainless Steel bore brushes only.
Push thru chamber guide out thru muzzle - unscrew brush.
Pull rod beck out - reinstall SS bore brush
Push thru chamber guide out thru muzzle - unscrew brush.
Pull rod beck out - reinstall SS bore brush
Push thru chamber guide out thru muzzle - unscrew brush.
Pull rod beck out - reinstall SS bore brush
Push thru chamber guide out thru muzzle - unscrew brush.
Pull rod beck out - reinstall SS bore brush
Add solvent of your choice alternating between carbon or copper removal.
(I use 26% auqueous ammonia mixed with Joy dishsoap = must use outside or fumes will KILL YOU!)
Push thru chamber guide out thru muzzle - unscrew brush.
Pull rod beck out - reinstall SS bore brush
Push thru chamber guide out thru muzzle - unscrew brush.
Pull rod beck out - reinstall SS bore brush
Push thru chamber guide out thru muzzle - unscrew brush.
Pull rod beck out - reinstall SS bore brush
Push thru chamber guide out thru muzzle - unscrew brush.
Pull rod beck out - reinstall SS bore brush
Add solvent of your choice alternating between carbon or copper removal.
Repeat as neccesary - use swab to remove loosened junk in bore.
When swabs come out totally clean, you are near done.

I only clean after every 250 shots because I use Brass Bore-riders and treat my bore with Tungsten-disulfide every 250 rounds.

Your Methods May Vary.






Or just do as others have stated above.
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Re: Rifle Cleaning

Postby jshuberg on Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:01 pm

It depends on what your rifle is used for. A precision long range rifle gets a different cleaning procedure than an AK you're willing to drag through the mud. One thing to keep in mind is that over cleaning a rifle will damage it more than shooting it can. It's mostly from damaging the crown, but you can also lose accuracy by damaging the interior of the bore as well. The bore of a rifle undergoes metallurgical changes as the result of being fired. The first few microns of the bore surface are exposed to extreme heat, pressure, and carbon. The results is that the surface of the bore in infused with additional carbon at the molecular level over time, giving it a higher carbon content, and making it more brittle than the original steel. Carbon fouling in the barrel can actually protect the surface of the bore from having microscopic amounts of surface stripped away during cleaning due to micro-fractures and increased brittleness.

There are generally 2 schools of thought on cleaning the bore - to either fully clean the weapon to sparkling clean, or to simply remove enough fouling to prevent it from building up to excess and maintain a fouling level equilibrium. I tend to fall into the 2nd camp - I allow a certain amount of carbon fouling to remain in the barrel, and only do a "deep clean" when copper fouling begins to become a problem or if accuracy starts to fall off. I think everyone is in agreement that using a single piece cleaning rod and bore guide is essential. The coating on the cleaning rod shouldn't really matter, since it should never impact the inside of the bore, but I prefer a nylon coated rod as a just-in-case.

When you run a wet cleaning brush through the bore, it's much more time consuming to unscrew the brush and wipe it clean, remove the cleaning road and then reattach the brush for the next pass, but it will prevent damage to the crown by not pulling a fouled brush back across it. For an AK or machine gun barrel, I just run it back and forth, for a precision barrel, I take the extra time and remove and clean the brush after every pass.

I use a clean dry bore snake in the field to get the worst of the fouling out after shooting. At home I run a patch or two through, let it set a few minutes, and then run a wet nylon brush through a few times, followed by a few more patches, until the patches come out clean. There is still fouling in the barrel at this point, but unless I'm doing a deep clean, I leave it at that.

If I am doing a deep clean I switch to a bronze brush, and alternate a few passes with the brush with a few passes with patches until the patches come clean. This can take awhile, so patience is essential. I use Hoppes for carbon and KG-12 for copper. After getting all of the carbon out during a deep clean, I leave the bore wet with a patch for around 10 mins, followed by a dry one. If there's a goodly amount of blue or green on the dry patch, I switch back to a clean nylon brush and switch to KG-12 and run a wet brush through 3 times, followed by 3 wet patches, and then 2 dry patches.

After a deep clean it takes between 20-50 fouling rounds for accuracy to come back to where it was. One it gets back to it's equilibrium, it's back to a couple nylon and a couple patches after each use to keep it in "the zone".

Everyone is going to have a different procedure, in general though whatever you decide to do, just don't scrub the bore excessively, be careful and patient, and do everything you can to minimize the amount of contact any object has with the bore. Let your solvents do the work for you.
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Re: Rifle Cleaning

Postby JJ on Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:18 am

Different strokes for different folks. I agree with many points listed above, and disagree with others.

I separate things into two camps. Precision rifle and beater rifle, much like Jschuberg above. But my criteria is much different. If I bought it off the shelf, its a beater, as its most likely a button rifled barrel, and I clean with brass brushes. My precision rifles on the other hand, are all cut rifled, or hand lapped barrels that have been installed after I torched/replaced a beater barrel. these will never see a brush. Just solvents and patch/jag.

I use carbon fiber rods in general, and for most guns I do not use bore guides. I never clean a bore to the point of "complete clean". I have, and have also found out i am wasting ammo fouling the bore to the point they shoot well.
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Re: Rifle Cleaning

Postby Ghost on Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:31 am

I switched to the Otis system about 10 years ago and haven't used a rod since. Every now and then I'll run a pass or two with a brush but generally I just run a few patches through after each use and call it good.
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Re: Rifle Cleaning

Postby Erud on Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:44 am

Have any of you guys ever used a bore scope to see how effective or ineffective your cleaning methods actually are?
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Postby jtk5768 on Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:52 am

What about cleaning lead for those who want to run cast boolits?
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Re: Rifle Cleaning

Postby OldmanFCSA on Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:17 am

Erud wrote:Have any of you guys ever used a bore scope to see how effective or ineffective your cleaning methods actually are?


Yes, but don't own one, yet. My stock barrel was so heat checked as to be un-usable for any accuracy use.
I had a Master Gunsmith specializing in 50BMG check my 50BMG Target barrels before and after cleaning thoroughly.
Then fired a few shoots with brass boreriders treated with Tungsten Disulfide. The TDS fills in the pores of the steel and helps to minimize the fouling of both carbon and copper/brass. A treated bore cleans much easier. As for using SS brushes - burning 250 grains of very abrasive powder in throat and bore is more damaging to the steel - but the SS brushes cleans by dislodging the burnt carbon that coats the bore. The brushes are sized for groove diameter to minimize any possible wear on the bore.
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Re: Rifle Cleaning

Postby Grayskies on Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:47 am

I kind of want to get some accuracy from the rifle, I doubt that the rifle (or I) is really that good. It is more a starter rifle to learn with. If I get to the point were the rifle is holding me back (doubtful) I will look into something better.

A nylon brush seems hard to find in .270, tho 7mm is easy (7mm~=.286 ?). I am hoping the bore guide for a savage 110 will work, the description lists alot of models and brands.

(a tad (or more) off topic, I am looking for a good book on balistics, and yes I know I will at some point have to get into load my own ammo... Maybe next year, so much to learn)

Thank You
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Re: Rifle Cleaning

Postby farmerj on Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:50 am

If I want to clean it past a boresnake, I use an electronic bore cleaner. You ain't clean til that's been run.
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Re: Rifle Cleaning

Postby Erud on Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:06 am

Grayskies wrote:(a tad (or more) off topic, I am looking for a good book on balistics


Look no further:

http://store.appliedballisticsllc.com/m ... tCode=0001

Written by Bryan Litz, chief ballistician for Berger Bullets and former rocket scientist. Also one of the very best long range shooters on the planet. If there is something about ballistics not covered in this book, you probably don't really need to know it.
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Re: Rifle Cleaning

Postby Grayskies on Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:33 am

Erud wrote:
Grayskies wrote:(a tad (or more) off topic, I am looking for a good book on balistics


Look no further:

http://store.appliedballisticsllc.com/m ... tCode=0001

Written by Bryan Litz, chief ballistician for Berger Bullets and former rocket scientist. Also one of the very best long range shooters on the planet. If there is something about ballistics not covered in this book, you probably don't really need to know it.


TY, it looks very good :)
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Re: Rifle Cleaning

Postby jshuberg on Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:32 pm

If you're looking for a general guide to precision or long distance shooting, there's a pretty good video series on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... vDCIcEPxUn

This series covers a lot of material, and will almost certainly give you an additional perspective on long range shooting, or give you some good base knowledge if you don't have a lot of experience to begin with. Do keep in mind that it represents one particular point of view, and often times there are other schools of thought that he doesn't go into at all, but overall I think it's very well done. There's around 30 hours of material, and you want to go through it in order, so plan on it taking awhile :)
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