Looking to borrow Redding or Wilson .290 or .291 bushing

View · by **gaberelli** on Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:26 pm

So I was hoping to shoot my new 6.5x6.8 (6.8 SPC necked down) next weekend but my .287 bushing is leaving the necks .282-.283"...

Redding says this can happen with the initial neck down on certain brass. Makes no sense to me... Since I'd rather not have .008" neck tension, I am wondering if anyone near thee SW metro has a larger bushing they'd be willing to loan me. Won't have time to order one in time.

I haven't looked at local reloading shops. I'm new to the area and wouldn't know where to start. Especially for bushings.

Long shot but figured I'd try.

Heinous typos thanks to autocorrect.

View · by **speedy396** on Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:27 pm

The Lakeville Fleet Farm had an assortment of Redding bushings. Not sure what sizes. Also Gunstop in Minnetonka usually has them in stock.

View · by **Rip Van Winkle** on Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:53 am

I would measure the ID of your bushing. Unless there's some kind of magic fairy dust involved there's no way a .287" bushing can undersize brass to .282". In my experience, there's ~.001" spring back after sizing, which would mean you should end up with a neck OD of ~.288 after sizing with a .287" bushing.

I'm betting your bushing is mislabeled, in which case Gunstop would probably be your best bet.

View · by **gaberelli** on Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:54 pm

Rip Van Winkle wrote:I would measure the ID of your bushing. Unless there's some kind of magic fairy dust involved there's no way a .287" bushing can undersize brass to .282". In my experience, there's ~.001" spring back after sizing, which would mean you should end up with a neck OD of ~.288 after sizing with a .287" bushing.

I'm betting your bushing is mislabeled, in which case Gunstop would probably be your best bet.

I wish you were right. The ID does measure .286 or so as they are designed for springback but I most definitely getting .282". Keep in mind, I am necking down from .277 to .264 for this wildcat.

Here is the response from Redding:

Hi Gabe

"From the Tech Tips on our website:

It has come to our attention through customer calls and our own use of the bushing style sizing dies that in certain instances, a given neck sizing bushing will produce a case neck diameter that can be several thousandths of an inch smaller than the actual diameter of the bushing. This idiosyncrasy occurs when the neck diameter of the fired case is a great deal larger than the diameter of the neck sizing bushing, such as occurs when factory chambers are on the large side of the tolerance range and the brass is on the thin side. Typically, we have not noticed any problems until the case neck is reduced more than 0.008-0.010".
Solutions include, increasing bushing diameter to compensate and/or the use of a size button. Reducing the neck diameter in two smaller steps by using an intermediate diameter bushing will also help. More concentric necks will also result using this method, as the case necks are stressed less during sizing. Don't forget to properly chamfer the inside and outside of the case mouths and apply a light coating of lubricant to the case necks before sizing.

Regards

Chris"

And here is another source:

" It is often found that when using a single bushing to size more than 0.005", the finished neck diameter is smaller than the bushing's nominal size. Those are the basic reasons for two-step sizing."

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/20 ... d.html?m=1

What's weird is that I did not encounter this with a similar wildcat that went down to .243 from .277. I suspect that after firing these rounds, I'll be able to go back to the .287 bushing.

I checked Gun Stop but they only had the carbide bushings ($$$). Didn't know FF carrier them. I'll check the one in Carver.

Heinous typos thanks to autocorrect.

View · by **Mauser98** on Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:43 pm

I never would have believed that somehow the neck could get smaller than the bushing, but it is right in the FAQ's on Reddings site. I just can't see how it's possible, but they have more knowledge than I have, so I'm not gonna argue with Redding.

If you have a bunch of cases to expand, you could expand them out with a Expand Iron from K&M, or any neck turning kit usually has an expanding die of some sort. My Sinclair set has a die with interchangeable mandrel. I don't have a 6.5 mm mandrel, otherwise I'd let you borrow it. Or, in a pinch you could run them up a regular die with an expander ball if you have that on hand.

For the cases yet to be necked down, have you tried annealing the necks before running them in the die? Not sure if it will help with this problem, but it can't hurt to try.

View · by **gaberelli** on Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:35 pm

Update. I found them at Fleet Farm. They only carry the coated ones and charge a lot but had every size in stock!!

Found out the phenomenon is not linear though. .287 was producing .282 so I went with .291 hoping for ..286 but actually got closer to .298. Still .003" under what one would expect but less of a deviance. Going to stop back tomorrow and swap for a .290 as with an autoloader, I'd prefer more than .002" tension.

Heinous typos thanks to autocorrect.

View · by **gaberelli** on Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:47 pm

Mauser98 wrote:I never would have believed that somehow the neck could get smaller than the bushing, but it is right in the FAQ's on Reddings site. I just can't see how it's possible, but they have more knowledge than I have, so I'm not gonna argue with Redding.

If you have a bunch of cases to expand, you could expand them out with a Expand Iron from K&M, or any neck turning kit usually has an expanding die of some sort. My Sinclair set has a die with interchangeable mandrel. I don't have a 6.5 mm mandrel, otherwise I'd let you borrow it. Or, in a pinch you could run them up a regular die with an expander ball if you have that on hand.

For the cases yet to be necked down, have you tried annealing the necks before running them in the die? Not sure if it will help with this problem, but it can't hurt to try.

I could expand them but I'd rather just get this bushing worked out and save myself a step on every piece. I've only ran through a few pieces with this testing. Once it all measures out, I'll crank through them in one pass. Since this is a wildcat, I don't have a normal die and don't actually even have a 6.5mm expander.

I have not annealed. From what I read though, this phenomenon is immune to annealing...

Like I said, going down to 6mm in the same case didn't pose a problem like this. Wondering if it's just the one pass, slightly necked down more than .010" or so that causes the issue. Maybe the next step down things settle down and perform more typically.

Heinous typos thanks to autocorrect.

View · by **gaberelli** on Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:47 pm

Mauser98 wrote:I never would have believed that somehow the neck could get smaller than the bushing, but it is right in the FAQ's on Reddings site. I just can't see how it's possible, but they have more knowledge than I have, so I'm not gonna argue with Redding.

If you have a bunch of cases to expand, you could expand them out with a Expand Iron from K&M, or any neck turning kit usually has an expanding die of some sort. My Sinclair set has a die with interchangeable mandrel. I don't have a 6.5 mm mandrel, otherwise I'd let you borrow it. Or, in a pinch you could run them up a regular die with an expander ball if you have that on hand.

For the cases yet to be necked down, have you tried annealing the necks before running them in the die? Not sure if it will help with this problem, but it can't hurt to try.

I could expand them but I'd rather just get this bushing worked out and save myself a step on every piece. I've only ran through a few pieces with this testing. Once it all measures out, I'll crank through them in one pass. Since this is a wildcat, I don't have a normal die and don't actually even have a 6.5mm expander.

I have not annealed. From what I read though, this phenomenon is immune to annealing...

Like I said, going down to 6mm in the same case didn't pose a problem like this. Wondering if it's just the one pass, slightly necked down more than .010" or so that causes the issue. Maybe the next step down things settle down and perform more typically.

Heinous typos thanks to autocorrect.

View · by **Seismic Sam** on Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:02 am

Seeing as your last post says that this effect is not linear, it sounds like you'll have to experiment with different sizes to get the right one. Why not just reduce the necks like you have been doing, then chamfer the inside of the necks with a 22 degree reamer, (called a VLD - Very low Drag ) ? Then buy a box of HPBT moly coated bullets, and seat them to expand the necks, and then pull the bullets. I have no idea now many times you can use one bullet before the moly wears off, but it will get you where you want to be without owning every sizing ring John-Boy carries.

View · by **gaberelli** on Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:18 pm

Seismic Sam wrote:Seeing as your last post says that this effect is not linear, it sounds like you'll have to experiment with different sizes to get the right one. Why not just reduce the necks like you have been doing, then chamfer the inside of the necks with a 22 degree reamer, (called a VLD - Very low Drag ) ? Then buy a box of HPBT moly coated bullets, and seat them to expand the necks, and then pull the bullets. I have no idea now many times you can use one bullet before the moly wears off, but it will get you where you want to be without owning every sizing ring John-Boy carries.

That would work too but might not provide the highest level of consistency. Nice just having the right bushing.

Was surprised to see FF's selection of bushings!!! They had nearly every one. I ended up with a .289 and am getting the consistent tension I want. I'm sure after once firing, I'll be back to the .287 bushing.

Heinous typos thanks to autocorrect.