How many are actually buying suppressors?

[Bitter Bastard]

Also, IF one is going to spend $200/tax stamp and $1,000/silencer,
then one has absolutely no excuse to not protect it and your family properly and spend $200-500 for a Trust..........

Can you explain how a trust protects the NFA item and my family?

Thanks,

Bitter Bastard

[MJY65]

Also, IF one is going to spend $200/tax stamp and $1,000/silencer,
then one has absolutely no excuse to not protect it and your family properly and spend $200-500 for a Trust..........

Can you explain how a trust protects the NFA item and my family?

Thanks,

Bitter Bastard

Without it, your family cannot keep the NFA item in the event of your death.

[Bitter Bastard]

Also, IF one is going to spend $200/tax stamp and $1,000/silencer,
then one has absolutely no excuse to not protect it and your family properly and spend $200-500 for a Trust..........

Can you explain how a trust protects the NFA item and my family?

Thanks,

Bitter Bastard

Without it, your family cannot keep the NFA item in the event of your death.

What? NFA items transfer tax free out of an estate...

[hammAR]

Yes, with a ATF Form 5 (5320.5) (good luck with that........)



NFA Trust

An NFA trust is a legal instrument which must be properly drafted to be valid. It is an estate planning tool which can be used to acquire NFA (Class 3) weapons, suppressors and destructive devices. The trust instrument is usually a revocable trust which can be changed or modified at any time before the maker’s death. This form provides flexibility. Trustees or beneficiaries can be added or deleted. Property can be transferred to or from the Trust. Such transfers must be documented in writing. A gun trust may own many NFA items. There is no need to set up a separate trust for each NFA item acquired. NFA items are transferred into the trust by means of an ATF Form 4. Non-NFA item such as paintings, collectables, rifles, pistols and shotguns are transferred to or from the trust by means of a bill of sale. The Form 4 and bill of sale document the transfers of property to and from the trust. This is very important as the Trustee who eventually distributes the trust assets upon its termination needs to know what the trust owns at a time when there is no one left alive to ask. It is these documents which provide a legal chain of title and evidence of ownership in the Trust.
Class 3 Gun Trusts Can Last Several Generations

Unless the trust property is transferred out of the Trust it remains a trust asset until the trust terminates. This provides a continuity of ownership for several generations. A gun trust usually provides for disposition of property much like a will but the assets remain in the trust for several generations. A typical well written NFA gun trust will last years after those who created it have passed away as well as the initial beneficiaries.

NFA Trust Property Distributed When Trust Terminates

When the trust terminates, typically about 70 years after it is formed, the assets on hand are distributed by the trustee to the beneficiaries. These are usually the grantor’s grandchildren. NFA items distributed at the end of the trust are taxed. Each transferee must pay the $200.00 transfer tax for each Class 3 item. This is different from a decedent’s estate where Class 3 items pass tax free to one’s heirs. The heirs (or their transferees) must pay the $200.00 transfer tax when they sell or transfer their inherited NFA item.
Trustee Administers Trust Assets for Trust Beneficiaries

Trustee(s) administer the trust’s assets for the benefit of the beneficiaries. When the Trustor / Grantor (creator of the Trust) dies the trust usually continues with a successor Trustee administering the trust for the remaining beneficiaries. Because the trust lasts such a long time, successor Trustees and contingent beneficiaries should also be designated. Such trusts are often used when the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) of an NFA buyer’s home city refuses to sign a Form 4 authorizing the transfer of an NFA weapon. CLEO sign offs have become an ever increasing problem in today’s security conscious world. An NFA trust or corporation is a separate legal entity. It is the actual purchaser of the NFA item and not an individual. Since an individual is not the purchaser (transferee) on the Form 4 (NFA transfer document) no CLEO approval is required. No fingerprint cards or photographs are required for transfers of Class 3 items to a trust.

[jshuberg]

A trust is a legal entity that owns property. The BATFE can't change this, and so cannot deny trusts owning NFA weapons. Congress could potentially do this, but without legislation giving them the authority, the BATFE simply can't, and if they tried would be sued and most certainly lose.


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[Rotary12]

I'm gonna pass on it. Too much work and too much money for a muffler.

[2in2out]

I'm doing a trust, but have been too busy to really spend much time thinking about it yet. Long term plans are for more than one suppressor, and new uppers/barrels spread out over time as funds allow. To me, that justifies a trust all by itself. Plus, protection/assurance for heirs in the event of my untimely demise, plus faster processing time... the list goes on. But, that means it's going to take me a little while to contact a gun trust lawyer, get the trust set up, etc. - and I just haven't had any to spare.

In the end, am I buying suppressors? You bet your sweet can, I am! Just give me a couple of months to get my act together.

[Hmac]

I'm doing a trust, but have been too busy to really spend much time thinking about it yet. Long term plans are for more than one suppressor, and new uppers/barrels spread out over time as funds allow. To me, that justifies a trust all by itself.

The number of SBR uppers or barrels that you have doesn't have anything to do with tax stamps. The SBR is the lower.

[george]

What I was told about multiple uppers when I did my Form 1 was line (4) e to use the shortest barrel, h put the additional calibers like 300aac, .223, 5.56 etc.
oal is with stock at it's max length and shortest upper, if asked you will need to produce the upper in line e so you will need to have and keep it.

[Hmac]

If the lower receiver has a transfer stamp to be an SBR, you can put any length barrel in any caliber on that lower without any additional paperwork as long as you have the parts (barrel) necessary to return it to the configuration on the Form 1. If you put a 16 inch-or-longer barrel on it, it's no longer an SBR and is no longer within the purview of the NFA.

I've never tried it, but others have told me that if you put multiple calibers and multiple barrel lengths on the Form 1, it will almost certainly get kicked back to you.

[george]

I've never tried it, but others have told me that if you put multiple calibers and multiple barrel lengths on the Form 1, it will almost certainly get kicked back to you.

We'll see because I'm still waiting, but I haven't heard anything yet. not barrel length but the cal. in line h (as I was told, those but heads) maybe I shouldn't have said that, They are monitoring

[MJY65]

I just stopped by the Suppressor Day at Element Arms. They have reps and models from Silencerco, Griffin, AAC and Surefire on display. Definitely some nice stuff out there.

[Hmac]

I've never tried it, but others have told me that if you put multiple calibers and multiple barrel lengths on the Form 1, it will almost certainly get kicked back to you.

We'll see because I'm still waiting, but I haven't heard anything yet. not barrel length but the cal. in line h (as I was told, those but heads) maybe I shouldn't have said that, They are monitoring

Transit time over the last 6 months, purchase to stamp received, for Form 4 individual has been running about 230 days according to NFA tracker. There's no way to monitor other than calling NFA Branch, and even then all they'll tell you is when the form goes pending.

[george]

I was looking at my copy of form 1 I sent and it said Rev. June 2014, NOW the ATF web sight says form 1 REV. Sept 2007 and the new one is not to be found.
I did notice the directions are a bit different also, Well this sucks, now I'm going to call Monday and see what's up. Something they must not have liked.
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/forms-library

EDIT; The new form is on the 2nd page, thank goodness, all is on track. I was looking for a suppressed SBR for hunting but wont hold my breath.
wonder why they left the old form up--to mess with people like me I guess.

[Deputyhiro]

I thought about it. Hmm, spend 1K on a suppressor, or spend $1400 on a hobby lathe and Form 1 it. The old "teach a man to fish" kicked in. I bought the lathe. Filed the form 1. Now, as I wait for it to come back, I can learn to be one with the lathe