Concealed EDC for limp-wristed, weak-fingered, new shooter?

[JJ]

What would the trigger work cost? On the one hand, I don't want to skimp on my EDC, but I am cost sensitive right now.

A hammer should be fine with an IWB holster, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with an exposed hammer in a pocket gun. Maybe I just need some dry fire practice to get over that prejudice.

About $20 for a spring kit, and a little labor. There are a few folks on here that would probably be willing to help you on that front, instead of going to a fun-shop, or fun-smith.

Depending on your location, i could probably let you have a crack at my 360 to get a feel, and get a better idea. Most of the time around here, if you offer to pay for a range lane, and buy your own ammo, it's not to hard to find someone willing to meet you for a test ride, and help you choose an appropriate piece.

[Seismic Sam]

You're one step ahead of the game because you've placed a priority on protecting yourself inside of your limitations over protecting your ego.

My second suggestion, and in this I agree with Sam <!>, is that you go ahead and try a SAO semi-auto such as a Sig P938 or Springfield EMP in 9mm. You will need to be comfortable carrying these cocked and locked and make sure you're able to sweep off the safety with no issues.

Dear Joe: Thanks for agreeing with me, but I am having trouble with your suggestion to sweep the safety. I have an UNLOADED Tanfoglio 10mm cocked and locked on the kitchen floor, and have been sweeping it with the wife's broom from every angle, and the durn safety will NOT come off!! The Wonderfinish is getting a pretty nice shine to it, so I'll probably sweep the other side too, but what am I doing wrong???

[mr.paul]

Also rent a Ruger LC9s. Make sure it is an "s" model. I have the LC9s Pro and I am amazed at the trigger. Even better would be a 1911 like the Springfield EMO if you want to go small. I also just recently dri fired a Rock Island baby rock 380. Felt and was built like a true 1911 but smaller. Short trigger pull. I have had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands and really understand the length of pull problem.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk

[TSKNIGHT]

Not at home, Will reply more later.
Have had similar issues for over 20 years.

[igofast]

I'm seeing a lot of recommendations for smaller auto's. I'm not sure any of them address the issue the poster is having with grip strength. He loves his Glock, but it's stovepiping due to self-admitted limp-wristing. To my knowledge, it's an inherent problem with the small form factors and I don't know if there are models that specifically address that issue.

Revolvers obviously are a solution - and the potential drawbacks have been addressed in this thread.

I'm not sure if an 'intermediate' auto might resolve the issue and give the OP the concealability he's looking for?

[TSKNIGHT]

Home with a true keyboard!

MN,
I commend you on your decision to carry. I also am proud to hear the honesty with your physical limitations and the difficulties they present. You've gotten some good info so far with things to try. I'll try to give you some of my personal experience.

I have nerve damage that causes me to have an inconsistent grip and/or limp wrist condition although, I do not have the lack of strength problem that you have, so not everything in my experience will relate to you. I had been CCing about 5 years when this started, and had a fair collection of pistols and revolvers to chose from for EDC.

My EDC for the last 18 years is a custom S&W 36 DAO. Trigger pull is 6-6 1/2lbs and is smooth as glass with a very crisp break. I often carry a Ruger LCP as a BUG, but it is only about 80% reliable beyond the first shot. Therefore, it is ONLY a BUG. I want my EDC to go bang EVERY time I squeeze the trigger. That is the main reason for my choosing a revolver. I'll try to list some of the things I ran into as I searched for a reliable EDC handgun.

1. At the time of my accident, my EDC was a S&W 3914 single stack 9mm. It became very erratic and I seldom managed a full magazine without a failure. I sent it through S&W custom shop ($150) with NO improvement.

2. Out of 5 full size pistols I owned, only 1 functioned with 90+% reliability. I now have two (both Ruger) that have proven to be 98+% reliable.

3. The heavier the pistol, the better reliability I have.

4. None of the smaller pistols have proven to function reliably for me. I have tried every small pistol I can get my hands on from all the major manufacturers.

5. I find that steel framed pistols tend to be more reliable for me than those with alloy or poly frames.

You have had good results with the full size XD. I would suggest trying the smaller version as the similar grip reference may help.

If you are interested, we could try to meet and you can try my 36, and I think someone else offered a 640 to try. Whole lot cheaper to try before you buy than buy only to find it doesn't work for you.

I wish you success in finding something that will be reliable as well as concealable for you.

[fine ape]

Its been my experience that most DAO revolvers like the 442/642 have a heavier trigger pull than most DA/SA revolvers do firing DA. If you like the little Smiths look for a 438/638 they have a hammer like a regular j frame, but its consealed on the sides by the frame giving it a "humpback" look.

Test it out next time I'm at the range. I do worry that for self-defense purposes, having to cock it it an extra step that shaves off precious time. Hopefully, adrenaline would kick in and help with firing it DA.

The nice thing about a DA/SA revolvers is you dont "have to" cock it to fire it.
I fondle a performance center 442 when i bought my 438 and the Da on the 442 was heavier than the 438.

Warning sudo-science explanation ahead...

I think the DAO models like the 442/642 have smaller hammers than the exposed hammer modles. Smaller hammer =less mass, less mass requires a stronger main spring to hit with the same force, thus a heavier trigger pull.

Any of you more knowledgeable S&W folks correct me if im wrong.

[MNblockhead]

What would the trigger work cost? On the one hand, I don't want to skimp on my EDC, but I am cost sensitive right now.

A hammer should be fine with an IWB holster, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with an exposed hammer in a pocket gun. Maybe I just need some dry fire practice to get over that prejudice.

About $20 for a spring kit, and a little labor. There are a few folks on here that would probably be willing to help you on that front, instead of going to a fun-shop, or fun-smith.

Depending on your location, i could probably let you have a crack at my 360 to get a feel, and get a better idea. Most of the time around here, if you offer to pay for a range lane, and buy your own ammo, it's not to hard to find someone willing to meet you for a test ride, and help you choose an appropriate piece.

Thanks for the offer. North Metro is most convenient, but I'm willing to drive a bit. I usually go to Bill's in Circle Pines. I have a handful of range tokens and would buy the ammo. Also willing to meet at another range. My schedule is flexible, but it would have to wait until after the holidays, the week of January 4th. If your offer still stands, PM me and let's schedule. I'm also interested in seeing how a more experience shooter shoots my Glock 42, would be nice to have confirmation that it just me and not the gun.

[MNblockhead]

I'm seeing a lot of recommendations for smaller auto's. I'm not sure any of them address the issue the poster is having with grip strength. He loves his Glock, but it's stovepiping due to self-admitted limp-wristing. To my knowledge, it's an inherent problem with the small form factors and I don't know if there are models that specifically address that issue.

Revolvers obviously are a solution - and the potential drawbacks have been addressed in this thread.

I'm not sure if an 'intermediate' auto might resolve the issue and give the OP the concealability he's looking for?

I'll be giving the Springfield Armory XD-S and XD-Mod.2 another look. I'm pretty sure they are too big for pocket carry and even IWB with a supertuck in fitted business casual may be hard to pull off. I'm thinking that an UnderTuck or similar holster under garment where the gun is under my upper arm would do the trick...but I'm trying to imagine myself accessing the gun in an emergency.

[fine ape]

I'm seeing a lot of recommendations for smaller auto's. I'm not sure any of them address the issue the poster is having with grip strength. He loves his Glock, but it's stovepiping due to self-admitted limp-wristing. To my knowledge, it's an inherent problem with the small form factors and I don't know if there are models that specifically address that issue.

Revolvers obviously are a solution - and the potential drawbacks have been addressed in this thread.

I'm not sure if an 'intermediate' auto might resolve the issue and give the OP the concealability he's looking for?

I'll be giving the Springfield Armory XD-S and XD-Mod.2 another look. I'm pretty sure they are too big for pocket carry and even IWB with a supertuck in fitted business casual may be hard to pull off. I'm thinking that an UnderTuck or similar holster under garment where the gun is under my upper arm would do the trick...but I'm trying to imagine myself accessing the gun in an emergency.

Button up shirts with snap buttons or cut off the buttons of a regular dress shirt, sew the buttons back on top of the button holes and use velcro to keep your shirt close. Easyer to do the superman thing to get your gun.

I tred the 511 holster under shirt, and while it worked ok small guns like my M&P 9c got lost in the pockets. Seriously the pockets on it are big enough to fit my 5" N frame.

Worried about the length or hight of the XDS for pocket carry?

Length, you could try making your pockets deeper. Rip the seam at the bottem of your pocket and add an extra inch or so and sew it close.

[MNblockhead]

TSKNIGHT, thanks for your detailed and helpful post.

2. Out of 5 full size pistols I owned, only 1 functioned with 90+% reliability. I now have two (both Ruger) that have proven to be 98+% reliable.

3. The heavier the pistol, the better reliability I have.

4. None of the smaller pistols have proven to function reliably for me. I have tried every small pistol I can get my hands on from all the major manufacturers.

Same experience. My Springfield XDM has been amazingly reliable, considering my limp wristing issues and lack of experience. It is comfortable to shoot and I was pretty accurate with it even with almost no shooting experience. But, being a semi-automatic pistol, and if I get sloppy with it, I can get a stove pipe. Maybe one out of hundreds of rounds and always because I was getting sloppy with my grip. I say I want a revolver because it will be even more reliable, but that's based on what I read. I would still grab my Springfield XDM over any revolver in a home invasion because: I can hit what I'm pointing at, I have a capacity of 19+1 9mm, and a slide release I can easily manipulate with my left hand. It will be interesting to see if I have the same issues with the smaller Springfield XD pistols that I'm having with the glock. May not be fair, though, because they are still larger than a glock 42.

If you are interested, we could try to meet and you can try my 36, and I think someone else offered a 640 to try. Whole lot cheaper to try before you buy than buy only to find it doesn't work for you.

That would be great. But it would need to after the holidays. PM with your preferred locations. I prefer Bills, since I have a bunch of range-passes, but would be happy to pay the lane fee at your favorite range.

[linksep]

One issue that I have is that I've had very bad RSI in the past which come back quickly when I slip into bad ergonomic habits. So, while I have a "grip master" in my Amazon buy-later list, because I've heard great things about it for developing grip and finger strength. But I worry that it would inflame RSI issues.

I'm sure you're miles ahead of me but the following two items helped my wrist/finger/thumb pain immensely in a matter of a couple days...

http://www.amazon.com/OTC-Lightweight-B ... 2470955011

http://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Vertical ... ouse&psc=1

[Snakeman721]

Also rent a Ruger LC9s. Make sure it is an "s" model. I have the LC9s Pro and I am amazed at the trigger. Even better would be a 1911 like the Springfield EMO if you want to go small. I also just recently dri fired a Rock Island baby rock 380. Felt and was built like a true 1911 but smaller. Short trigger pull. I have had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands and really understand the length of pull problem.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk

THIS^^^^^^^ The Ruger LC9s has a butter smooth light trigger, unlike the regular LC9. You have to try one to believe it. I can't relate to reliability as I've only dry fired one.

[MNblockhead]

One issue that I have is that I've had very bad RSI in the past which come back quickly when I slip into bad ergonomic habits. So, while I have a "grip master" in my Amazon buy-later list, because I've heard great things about it for developing grip and finger strength. But I worry that it would inflame RSI issues.

I'm sure you're miles ahead of me but the following two items helped my wrist/finger/thumb pain immensely in a matter of a couple days...

http://www.amazon.com/OTC-Lightweight-B ... 2470955011

http://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Vertical ... ouse&psc=1

I had wraps and physical therapy few years ago, but what really made a huge difference is:

(1) A hand-shake grip mouse. I first used the Evoluent Verticle Mouse (https://evoluent.com/). I was a great improvement over a traditional mouse or touchpad, but it didn't last long and you could only use it in one hand. Then I changed to the Penguin Ambidextrous Vertical Mouse from Posturite. It took some getting used to but it makes a huge difference. No only is it a solid handshapgrip mouse, it has a large lip at the bottom so you are not rubbing your hand against the desk. Even more important you can switch hands. It really helps to chance the hands now and then.

(2) A Kinesis Advantage keyboard. http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage-for-pc-mac/ Again, it takes a while to get used to, but it make huge difference. It places the most used keys so that you kit them with your thumbs. The concave design may log strand, but it helps keep your hands in a relaxed, unstrained position when typing. I can type all day with no pain on that keyboard. In under an hour on a number laptop keyboard, I start getting pain in my fingers.

(3) A treadmill desk. Luckily I work from home most of the time so I got myself a treadmill desk. This help avoid back pain, help burn a few more calories, but most importantly, standing with the desk at the proper height help prevent stress on risks, shoulders, and lower back. I have a docking station so I can take the laptop to another room to sit down for a while. No only standing, but changing positions throughout the day helps. I like the Lifespan desks: http://www.lifespanfitness.com/workplac ... dmill-desk

[ZardozCZ]

I don't have grip strength issues, yet, but to help prevent them I bought this pair <http://www.amazon.com/Gripmaster-Prohands-Medical-Exercisers-X-Heavy/dp/B00CK2VAFK/ref=sr_1_20_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1450869954&sr=8-20&keywords=gripmaster+2-pack+strengthener> to use while watching TV, switching the medium red and heavy black from side to side. I like that I can squeeze three and hold while slowly squeezing the trigger finger independently. Don't know if it helps my league scores, but it has helped me keep on target better.

I also bought these: <http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00596VWHK?psc=1> to balance flexor/extensor training, and move the joints both ways with resistance.

While using these devices, I also move my hands in different positions to maybe keep the wrists in tune a bit. I appreciate once nerves are damaged there are issues that cannot be overcome, but maybe these can help develop work-arounds, and keep what you have in tune. Just sharing what I found and use to keep my 62 year old carcass from decrepitude.

HTH