The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

[Ghost]

Interesting read. Thank you.

I had previously mentioned that hunting bows are only capable of 80 to 100 ft lbs of energy.

Fred Bear once showed that a 30-06 couldn't go clean through a bucket of sand. The bullet was found in the sand after the shot.

Fred used a 50 lb recurve bow and was able to pierce through the back side of the bucket.

Fred's intent was to prove a bow was more powerful than a 30-06. Obviously not more powerful but better sectional density.

[Ghost]

Fascinating video

[Holland&Holland]

Interesting read. Thank you.

I had previously mentioned that hunting bows are only capable of 80 to 100 ft lbs of energy.

Fred Bear once showed that a 30-06 couldn't go clean through a bucket of sand. The bullet was found in the sand after the shot.

Fred used a 50 lb recurve bow and was able to pierce through the back side of the bucket.

Fred's intent was to prove a bow was more powerful than a 30-06. Obviously not more powerful but better sectional density.

Ok, now talk about percentage of people who can shoot a .30-06 well vs a recurve. Have you seen a bear shot with a recurve? Just got done talking to a guide in Canada who will no longer allow them after 2 failed to penetrate well. The recovery was gruesome. Hint, adrenaline can affect achieving full draw and therefore it is not a 50 lb recurve anymore...

[Ghost]

Interesting read. Thank you.

I had previously mentioned that hunting bows are only capable of 80 to 100 ft lbs of energy.

Fred Bear once showed that a 30-06 couldn't go clean through a bucket of sand. The bullet was found in the sand after the shot.

Fred used a 50 lb recurve bow and was able to pierce through the back side of the bucket.

Fred's intent was to prove a bow was more powerful than a 30-06. Obviously not more powerful but better sectional density.

Ok, now talk about percentage of people who can shoot a .30-06 well vs a recurve. Have you seen a bear shot with a recurve? Just got done talking to a guide in Canada who will no longer allow them after 2 failed to penetrate well. The recovery was gruesome. Hint, adrenaline can affect achieving full draw and therefore it is not a 50 lb recurve anymore...

The indian is too variable for this discussion, we have to assume they are capable of doing their job. But, I've seen how people shoot at ranges and it's pretty sad.

[acs75]

Edit. It's not worth it

[Ghost]

Edit. It's not worth it

I thought we were having an informed discussion not an emotional debate. Why wouldn't your information be worth it?

[yukonjasper]

it does seem as though this discussion is challenging a lot of preconceived notions or folklore behind what minimum calibers can be used at what distance for what game. I think there are a lot of people who just believe what they believe and aren't interested in be challenged to the point where they begin to question what they have always "known" to be the "truth". I do believe that experience is worth something which is why I respect those who take umbrage with the 6.5 Grendel stance that it is closer to a 308 than most thought and in some ways superior to a 308.

I am definitely closer to making the Complete Upper purchase for the Upper I have in the safe. Question now seems to be what level of upper do I need $300 or $900?

[acs75]

Edit. It's not worth it

I thought we were having an informed discussion not an emotional debate. Why wouldn't your information be worth it?

I said before I wasn't going to debate it any longer. I made my opinion known. I'm More then comfortable with my beliefs on what's ethical n what's not.

[Erud]

it does seem as though this discussion is challenging a lot of preconceived notions or folklore behind what minimum calibers can be used at what distance for what game. I think there are a lot of people who just believe what they believe and aren't interested in be challenged to the point where they begin to question what they have always "known" to be the "truth". I do believe that experience is worth something which is why I respect those who take umbrage with the 6.5 Grendel stance that it is closer to a 308 than most thought and in some ways superior to a 308.

I am definitely closer to making the Complete Upper purchase for the Upper I have in the safe. Question now seems to be what level of upper do I need $300 or $900?

Hunting game with anything less than a $900 upper is unethical. They have to be cutting corners somewhere to keep the cost down, what if it's on QC? What if they didn't tighten the barrel all the way on? What if you pull the trigger and the barrel unscrews slightly before the bullet exits the barrel and you wound the deer? You are the unethical one who will have to live with the unethical ramifications of that unethical decision.

[acs75]

it does seem as though this discussion is challenging a lot of preconceived notions or folklore behind what minimum calibers can be used at what distance for what game. I think there are a lot of people who just believe what they believe and aren't interested in be challenged to the point where they begin to question what they have always "known" to be the "truth". I do believe that experience is worth something which is why I respect those who take umbrage with the 6.5 Grendel stance that it is closer to a 308 than most thought and in some ways superior to a 308.

I am definitely closer to making the Complete Upper purchase for the Upper I have in the safe. Question now seems to be what level of upper do I need $300 or $900?

Hunting game with anything less than a $900 upper is unethical. They have to be cutting corners somewhere to keep the cost down, what if it's on QC? What if they didn't tighten the barrel all the way on? What if you pull the trigger and the barrel unscrews slightly before the bullet exits the barrel and you wound the deer? You are the unethical one who will have to live with the unethical ramifications of that unethical decision.

Another quality post Erud. Thanks for your valuable opinion on this discussion.

[Erud]

it does seem as though this discussion is challenging a lot of preconceived notions or folklore behind what minimum calibers can be used at what distance for what game. I think there are a lot of people who just believe what they believe and aren't interested in be challenged to the point where they begin to question what they have always "known" to be the "truth". I do believe that experience is worth something which is why I respect those who take umbrage with the 6.5 Grendel stance that it is closer to a 308 than most thought and in some ways superior to a 308.

I am definitely closer to making the Complete Upper purchase for the Upper I have in the safe. Question now seems to be what level of upper do I need $300 or $900?

Hunting game with anything less than a $900 upper is unethical. They have to be cutting corners somewhere to keep the cost down, what if it's on QC? What if they didn't tighten the barrel all the way on? What if you pull the trigger and the barrel unscrews slightly before the bullet exits the barrel and you wound the deer? You are the unethical one who will have to live with the unethical ramifications of that unethical decision.

Another quality post Erud. Thanks for your valuable opinion on this discussion.

Anytime buddy, I'm here to help!

[Ghost]

it does seem as though this discussion is challenging a lot of preconceived notions or folklore behind what minimum calibers can be used at what distance for what game. I think there are a lot of people who just believe what they believe and aren't interested in be challenged to the point where they begin to question what they have always "known" to be the "truth". I do believe that experience is worth something which is why I respect those who take umbrage with the 6.5 Grendel stance that it is closer to a 308 than most thought and in some ways superior to a 308.

I am definitely closer to making the Complete Upper purchase for the Upper I have in the safe. Question now seems to be what level of upper do I need $300 or $900?

If it's the $900 upper I suggested, it's more than an upper.

[Ghost]

it does seem as though this discussion is challenging a lot of preconceived notions or folklore behind what minimum calibers can be used at what distance for what game. I think there are a lot of people who just believe what they believe and aren't interested in be challenged to the point where they begin to question what they have always "known" to be the "truth". I do believe that experience is worth something which is why I respect those who take umbrage with the 6.5 Grendel stance that it is closer to a 308 than most thought and in some ways superior to a 308.

I am definitely closer to making the Complete Upper purchase for the Upper I have in the safe. Question now seems to be what level of upper do I need $300 or $900?

Hunting game with anything less than a $900 upper is unethical. They have to be cutting corners somewhere to keep the cost down, what if it's on QC? What if they didn't tighten the barrel all the way on? What if you pull the trigger and the barrel unscrews slightly before the bullet exits the barrel and you wound the deer? You are the unethical one who will have to live with the unethical ramifications of that unethical decision.

Another quality post Erud. Thanks for your valuable opinion on this discussion.

I thought we were talking facts, like how the state of Utah requires 500 ft lbs of energy for elk. You know less than half the energy of a Grendel at 400 yards.

[acs75]

[quote="yukonjasper"]it does seem as though this discussion is challenging a lot of preconceived notions or folklore behind what minimum calibers can be used at what distance for what game. I think there are a lot of people who just believe what they believe and aren't interested in be challenged to the point where they begin to question what they have always "known" to be the "truth". I do believe that experience is worth something which is why I respect those who take umbrage with the 6.5 Grendel stance that it is closer to a 308 than most thought and in some ways superior to a 308.

I am definitely closer to making the Complete Upper purchase for the Upper I have in the safe. Question now seems to be what level of upper do I need $300 or $900?

Hunting game with anything less than a $900 upper is unethical. They have to be cutting corners somewhere to keep the cost down, what if it's on QC? What if they didn't tighten the barrel all the way on? What if you pull the trigger and the barrel unscrews slightly before the bullet exits the barrel and you wound the deer? You are the unethical one who will have to live with the unethical ramifications of that unethical decision.

Another quality post Erud. Thanks for your valuable opinion on this discussion.

I thought we were talking facts, like how the state of Utah requires 500 ft lbs of energy for elk. You know less than half the energy of a Grendel at 400 yards.[/quote]



I apologize if I gave you the idea that I said you couldn't shoot anything at any range with any caliber. Have fun. I would chose a different option.

[crbutler]

Utah requires 500 ft lbs at 100 yards with a minimum of .24 caliber in a handgun. Rifle is any center fire.

Ok. Legal is a .17 hornet rifle. Don't be stupid.

How many elk have you shot? How much money would be sufficient for hunt cost before you would start moving up from a 6.5 Grendel (meaning a guided hunt where most outfitters say if you draw blood, that's your animal, you are done with a wounded bull)?

The Grendel is a good long range steel swatter, a good all around deer/pronghorn round, but a marginal elk round, and in my opinion, an unethical long range elk round. It's also not a moose cartridge. Yes it can kill anything that walks, as can a .22 short... but that does not make it a good hunting round.

Before you trot out that canard about Europeans and the 6.5x55, remember that the European moose is about 70% the size of a Alaskan or Siberian moose, they are shot at very close range, and they are generally hunting with dogs (elghunds) so a wounded animal is almost always found. The 6.5 when used on moose is generally with a 160 grain bullet, which is also a bit out of the range of the Grendel's oal.

As to which upper, whichever works better for you. The cheap one may shoot well, while the expensive one may be so so. Personally, I have found you generally get what you pay for, but then again, fortunately for me $200 on my hunting rifle is not a matter of significant debate so I am not the guy to ask about budget choices.

From what I am seeing, yukonjasper is after an AR deer and maybe pronghorn gun as a range rifle. The Grendel will work excellently for that. I realize most are not going to do the level and amount of traveling hunting I do, which colors my thinking a bit, but of the new guys I see in elk hunts, all of them are hauling new .300 or .338s so it seems that if you can afford the $5000 for the hunt, you can afford a new gun for elk. All of the guys I have met hunting elk with a Grendel (all one of them) were industry comped writers. What he wrote was rather different than what I heard from the guide, and that really colors my thinking on that rifle choice. I will go so far as to say even if you paid for me to hunt elk or moose with a Grendel, I would not. I have too much respect for the animal.