National Carry Academy...major fail.

[Back In Black]

My rating....major fail.

This is long but unfortunately it has been a long frustrating experience.

http://www.nationalcarryacademy.com formerly known as Midwest Carry Academy is the vendor my wife and I went to when we got our permit to carry 5 years ago. We followed that up with additional handgun training from them as well. We were happy with the courses and what we learned. So we decided to use them to renew.

I received an email from them in March offering a discounted rate for their "Hybrid" course which consists of a 1 hour 44 minute online video presentation and an in person shooting qualification. The video was worthless and I don't see how that even comes close to satisfying the requirements for getting a PTC, even for people who are renewing. We both finished the video a few days before our scheduled range qualification and I inquired via email about what we needed to bring to the range. I received a response telling me how much ammo to bring, eye and hearing protection, etc., and then it went on to say "At some point, before performing your shooting qualification the Instructor will collect your reduced range fee of $15. The Instructor can accept cash, check, or card for the range fee". I didn't remember reading anything during the sign up process or on their website at any time about $15 range fee. Quite the contrary in fact. It clearly states on their website that the shooting qualification is included in the price.

Multi-state Permit to Carry Course Hybrid is $79.99 This includes: Multi-state permit to carry course online and the shooting portion in-person qualification, must bring your own gun/range equipment/ammunition.

I responded with an email questioning this fee and was told:

"Thank you for reaching back out and so sorry for the confusion.
There are several programs we sell. Some where you do not have to pay anything, others you will need to pay for the ammunition - it basically depends on which program you paid for. If you can send a copy of the Groupon or program you paid for, that would be great!
I hope this helps!"

Ammunition???? Huh? So I replied back clarifying that I was asking about the range fee not about ammunition and that we would be bringing our own guns and ammo according to the requirements on THEIR OWN WEBSITE! I also told them there was no Groupon or Program. I signed up on THEIR website using a discount code THEY supplied. This is the response I got:

"If you can send us a a screenshot of the fine print of which program you signed up for, that would be great!

We look forward to your reply."

At this point I'm about to pull my hair out. However, I tried once more to explain that there was NO PROGRAM and NO FINE PRINT! I asked for them to show ME the fine print anywhere in the sign up process that said there was a $15 range fee. I also told them that if they were not going to honor the price they charged us for the course, then give us a refund.

After that I heard nothing. In the meantime, our range date got canceled because of the blizzard and was rescheduled two weeks later which pushed us outside of the renewal window. My fault for waiting so long I know.

I called them many times. No one answers and they don't return the calls. I even sent an email asking them to call me. Nothing. We decided to just go to the range (we're near Rochester and the range is in Chanhassen) at the scheduled time (April 28th) and work it out there. Well then I get another from them yesterday confirming the range time with the same $15 range fee requirement. I responded telling them that if they insisted on charging us the $15/person range fee, then cancel our enrollment and give us a refund. I waited 24 hours for a response and then sent another email telling them to cancel our enrollment and issue a refund immediately. I got a reply with the same canned message confirming our range date, etc, etc. We're not going.

I just signed us up for a PTC class run by Sterling and Time Defense, LLC. at our range (SMSC) this Saturday. It's a 5 hour in person course with shooting at the range. Should have done this in the first place.

I fully expect to have a very hard time getting a refund from Nation Carry Academy given the abysmal customer service they've shown. I will most likely have to dispute the charge with my CC company. Either way, I will report back with the results.

[BigBlue]

That's pretty bad that they can't even be consistent with what their own web site says and then can't be bothered to check it themselves.

As for the video, 1.75 hours doesn't seem to be long enough to cover carry law and issues adequately. If it were geared towards renewals only that may be different but not a full course. I've never been to one that was less than 4 hours for class time.

BB

[yukonjasper]

The "Community"should police itself so as not to degrade the integrity of the permit process. Don't get me started...........

[Erud]

The "Community"should police itself so as not to degrade the integrity of the permit process. Don't get me started...........

Not sure if I follow. The permit process is an infringement by the State of MN on your God-given rights, what sort of integrity does it have? Plenty of states get along just fine with no permits at all needed to carry.

[Ghost]

The "Community"should police itself so as not to degrade the integrity of the permit process. Don't get me started...........

Not sure if I follow. The permit process is an infringement by the State of MN on your God-given rights, what sort of integrity does it have? Plenty of states get along just fine with no permits at all needed to carry.

TL/DR but I agree with Erud in concept. I also believe society in general is mentally deficient and not capable of understanding what he is getting at.

[crbutler]

If society is so mentally deficient, would you want those folks carrying a gun?

Voting?

Breeding?

I guess I am prepared to buy the need for a carry permit to weed out the problems. Are the legislators prepared to regulate the other things that can cause damage to the populace as a whole when used irresponsibly?

Of course, I should be the final arbiter in any question too.

Sarcasm if you are too dense.

[yukonjasper]

My comments pertain to our current situation - like or not - there are State Laws governing the Carry Permit process. I agree with and would advocate for not requiring any special permitting from the State, however, that is not reality. If you have a poorly put together Permit instruction class and the end result is that people are exiting with less than they effectively need to understand the responsibility of carrying a firearm, but they believe that they have everything they need, that is a problem. Worse than not getting any instruction at all. The renewal prior to my most recent was not up to my expectations and no where near as comprehensive and serious as the first and most recent. At a minimum, the concept of the responsibility a person takes on when they arm themselves and move among other should be explained -not a responsibility to protect other etc. but a responsibility to not be: a jackass, a hothead, a drunk, an instigator etc. To most people that is common sense and goes without saying. Frankly, I'm surprised there aren't more issues - although there seem to be more and more issues with people carrying who are not up to the personal responsibility and discipline that is demanded when you do so. When they screw up it makes us all look bad - self policing may help - give feedback directly to the instructor if you thought the class was poor.

Flame suit on, I fully expect the "Not to be infringed" crowd to go nuts, but I am not a believer that all people are equal - that has nothing to do with skin color, sex, sexual attraction or any other "ist" you want to throw out there. I'm talking about intelligence, problem solving, patience, common sense. Those elements vary widely from individual to individual - plenty of evidence of that.

[Erud]

At a minimum, the concept of the responsibility a person takes on when they arm themselves and move among other should be explained -not a responsibility to protect other etc. but a responsibility to not be: a jackass, a hothead, a drunk, an instigator etc.

I don’t know, 12 of the 50 states don’t do anything like that and they seem to get along fine. If I could find an instructor who’d just take my money to sign the certificate saying that I passed, that would suit me just fine. The MN permit process is a racket that benefits no one but the state, and I suppose some instructors. Don’t legitimize it by saying it needs to be “policed”.

[Holland&Holland]

My comments pertain to our current situation - like or not - there are State Laws governing the Carry Permit process. I agree with and would advocate for not requiring any special permitting from the State, however, that is not reality. If you have a poorly put together Permit instruction class and the end result is that people are exiting with less than they effectively need to understand the responsibility of carrying a firearm, but they believe that they have everything they need, that is a problem. Worse than not getting any instruction at all. The renewal prior to my most recent was not up to my expectations and no where near as comprehensive and serious as the first and most recent. At a minimum, the concept of the responsibility a person takes on when they arm themselves and move among other should be explained -not a responsibility to protect other etc. but a responsibility to not be: a jackass, a hothead, a drunk, an instigator etc. To most people that is common sense and goes without saying. Frankly, I'm surprised there aren't more issues - although there seem to be more and more issues with people carrying who are not up to the personal responsibility and discipline that is demanded when you do so. When they screw up it makes us all look bad - self policing may help - give feedback directly to the instructor if you thought the class was poor.

Flame suit on, I fully expect the "Not to be infringed" crowd to go nuts, but I am not a believer that all people are equal - that has nothing to do with skin color, sex, sexual attraction or any other "ist" you want to throw out there. I'm talking about intelligence, problem solving, patience, common sense. Those elements vary widely from individual to individual - plenty of evidence of that.

So a one day training class trains the jackass and hot head out of a person? Wow, very effective instructors.