1911 Safety Question

[GregM]

I've seen a few movies where the hero carries his 1911 with a round chambered and the hammer down. Is this safe?

[rucker]

You might want to wait for someone who actually owns a 1911 (it's next on my list, I swear!) but here is what I have heard: When the hammer is down it's resting on the primer. A hard bump and you fire the gun. The "safer" way to carry it with a round in the chamber is to have the hammer cocked and safety engaged. The safety rotates the sear which prevents the hammer from lowering.

[Ramoel]

It's safe to have a round chambered and the hammer down. The problem is lowering the hammer on a live round. If your finger slips, the hammer should be caught by the half cock notch on many 1911's or the shelf on series 80 Colts, if it doesn't, it may go bang. The firing pin doesn't touch the primer with the hammer down. It's carried forward by momentum when the hammer hits it and then the firing pin spring retracts it again.

[rucker]

The firing pin doesn't touch the primer with the hammer down. It's carried forward by momentum when the hammer hits it and then the firing pin spring retracts it again.

oops I was close at least

this is why we need more members. I have much more to learn than to teach. I'm just providing the platform, it's up to you guys to provide the content

[hammAR]

Ramoel has it.....If you want to read a little more about it here is a good place:
http://www.smartcarry.com/cocklock.htm

C1 always..............IMESHO......

[hammAR]

oops I was close at least

this is why we need more members. I have much more to learn than to teach. I'm just providing the platform, it's up to you guys to provide the content

We all had to learn once, some more than once..................

Thanks for the site and the effort.

[jac714]

In a very specific situation this can cause an accidental discharge. You have to have an older version of the 1911 without the firing pin block (Swartz safety on a Kimber (Series II), the Series 80 design from Colt are examples) and you drop the gun on the hammer it is possible to have an AD.

The danger is as earlier stated the transition from condition 1 to condition 2 where a negilient discharge is very possible.

The safest way to carry a 1911 pattern pistol is Condition 1, cocked and locked. That is the way it was designed to be carried by JMB.

[1911fan]

I do not want this to become thread drift or list of bad things in movies, but,

FOR the most part, the Movies have nothing to do with reality as it relates to anything mechanical. The same people who give us the automatic transmission that shifts like a stick shift, the airplane that immediately wants to go into a screaming dive the second the autopilot comes off, and the car that will not slow down, respond to the parking brake, allow you to move the shift lever or turn the key off when some one "snips" a brake line, are not the correct place to seek responsible firearms usage.

They have not got a clue,


If you have to watch something about safer gun handling, watch the US troops in training or at war or on occasion though not always, watch Cops.

[e5usmc]

If you have to watch something about safer gun handling, watch the US troops in training or at war or on occasion though not always...

added my own emphasis... from experience, a little of which was first hand (and only once after I got torn my new one)...

[1911fan]

I agree, I was trying to just bring out that wanna be's on film are not very often versed in the real life repercussions of their actions.

USUALLY troops are. they see real damage caused by real bullets and go "ohhhhhh I wanna be careful"

[101CombatVet]

I agree, I was trying to just bring out that wanna be's on film are not very often versed in the real life repercussions of their actions.

USUALLY troops are. they see real damage caused by real bullets and go "ohhhhhh I wanna be careful"

I dont think We are the best individuals for this...
While in Iraq our 1000+ people at FOB Mahmudiyah
we had approx 15-20 Negligent discharges and after that their wallet was the only thing with a hole in it (article 15):o

p.s. let me say I never had that problem when my rifle went off it was because I wanted it to

[JoeH]

I've seen a few movies where the hero carries his 1911 with a round chambered and the hammer down. Is this safe?

No.

Why?

Just remember this, "Never drop the hammer on a loaded chamber unless you want the gun to go BANG."

[R.E.T.]

Just to add to what others have said. If you want to fire it, there is a problem. If you pull the trigger in a 1911 with the hammer down nothing will happen as its a single action. To fire the hammer needs to be cocked, which you can do by pulling it back or by racking the slide. Either of which will be a two handed operation. Also the thumb safety will not engage with the hammer down.

[Rags]

Hi, everbody! This is Dave Matheny, author of "Handgun Basics" and frequent poster on the TCCarry forum. My first-ever post here.

There are two separate questions here. One is: Why carry the gun this way at all? It will require either two hands -- weak-hand thumb to cock the hammer -- or an awkward reach with the shooting-hand thumb to cock the hammer. Remember that this is not a Single Action Army, or some such gun designed from the beginning to be cocked with the shooting-hand thumb. It's pretty darn awkward to do. Try it with an empty chamber and see for yourself.

The second is the question of risk in carrying this way. I don't think it's potentially hazardous. The actual danger from the gun falling and landing on the hammer, with a round in the chamber, appears to be wildly exagerrated, to put it mildly. In the past, on other forums, I've quoted a set of experiments conducted by an engineer who did a series of drop-tests with a 1911 slide and barrel, with the firing pin spring removed, and a primed case in the chamber. He finally reached a height of 13 feet (if I remember correctly), that being the longest piece of PVC pipe he had. Even from that height, the primer was barely marked, let alone fired.

So, my opinon, for what it's worth, is: You could carry that way, but there's no reason to.

Also, Hollywood does things for show-business's sake that are unrelated to reality. The clickety-click you hear when a 1911 is raised is dubbed in after filming by what are called Foley Artists, who work with sounds.

[JoeH]

Good stuff, Dave.