Why does the gun refuse to lock open when empty?

[cmj685]

Guys,
Just wondering if anyone can give me some suggestions. The last time I shot at the range (with a newly cleaned and lubed gun, though I admit it has been a long time since I ripped the gun apart and cleaned it completely inside) the gun refused to lock open when it was empty (Taurus Millenium Pro 9). In addition, on several occasions at the same shoot it refused to go all the way into battery, needing a little bump on the back of the slide to finish. The latter is something that has happened occasinally with the gun from the first, but not often several times in a row like this time. But not locking open--never before. I was shooting Magtech ammo since I was trying one of the range's guns as well, and they require using their ammo--don't usually use that ammo brand. Was it the ammo? Do I need to tear this gun apart and clean it thoroughly? Something else? Thanks!

[rucker]

Were you using just one magazine?

[ttousi]

Were you using just one magazine?

On target with that

Sometimes the mag is screwed up.........worn follower. Had the problem with a glock 17..........turned out to be a worn mag follower.
New mag no problem

[Srigs]

Were you using just one magazine?

On target with that

Sometimes the mag is screwed up.........worn follower. Had the problem with a glock 17..........turned out to be a worn mag follower.
New mag no problem

Generally it is a mag problem and sometimes the spring that supports the hold open 'slide release' is worn.

[onebohemian]

The way the lock back works is pretty simple. The follower (the little plastic piece that rides on top of the spring in the magazine) pushes up against the slide stop after the last round. The slide catches on it instead of sliding all the way forward. If you look in the empty gun through the ejection port and slowly slide the magazine into the gun, you'll see where the follower engages the slide stop to push it up. Check that area to see if there's anything out of the ordinary (obvious wear or a chip or nick).

If that looks good, run your other magazine into the gun the same way to see if the two followers are engaging the slide stop at the same location. I can't recall if you have metal followers or not, bt on some of my magazines with metal followers, I've had to slightly adjust the follower by bending it so it fully pushes up on the slide stop.

If there's no difference between mags, I'd pull the slide off the gun and use a tooth brush and some cleaner to scrub the slide lock lever and spring. Could be some carbon build up that makes it bind and not easily slide upwards to engage the cut out on the slide.

Not a bad idea to check the cut out on the slide to make sure it hasn't lost its edge. I suppose it could be itself worn and not grabbing the slide lock tooth.

I'd definitely pull the mags apart and clean them as well. The spring or follower could be hanging up and not springing up to force the slide lock up to grab the slide after the last round. If you haven't had your mags apart before, take one apart at a time. Cover the plastic/metal tab on the end with your hand/thumb while pushing in the little nub with a pen or something. When you slide the base off, watch out so the spring and possibly a little metal tab that some magazines have between the base and spring doesn't fly out and hit you in the eye or across your garage. Slide the spring and follower out of the magazine, watching how the spring engages the bottom of the follower so you can put it back together exactly as you took it apart. You could find a broken spring or broken follower, etc. If you can't remember how to put it together, take the other one apart to see how to put it back together. Clean the inside of the mag body and the spring and wipe them dry. Oil film inside your mag body will just attract dirt/dust and gum them up sooner than later.

You could find that your spring is shot in the magazine. That would surprise me in your gun as you don't have that many rounds through it. It happens though. Sometimes you can get heavier springs through Wolf Springs that will make the follower pop up stronger. Do some research on a taurus forum before you do this.

By the way, I did some research on your gun and the only two magazines I see available anywhere are the factory taurus and the pro-mags. Pro mags aren't what you'd want to use for self defense. Sounds from another topic on this board that they are good enough for range work. The cheapest I saw new taurus factory mags for your gun was about $35.00 while the pro mags were around $14.00.

Have fun.

Edit to add one more thing. Your failures to go into battery are not magazine related. That's likely an entirely different animal. First, clean your chamber and barrel with a brass brush and cleaner. Second, use that old toothbrush to scrub the rest of the innards of the gun along, especially the rails on the slide and frame and the guide rod and spring. I don't recall if your spring and guide rod come apart. If they do, separate and scrub as well. Check the spring for any broken strands (if it's a strand type) or similar failures. Lube the gun per manufacturer's instructions (don't over do it as that just attracts gunk). No lube in the chamber.

Next time at the range, look at the cases of the ammo you put in your mags. I've seen Winchester White Box with some bulges or flaws that can cause them to stick a little when being chambered. Same could happen with the magtech.

[cmj685]

Thanks for all the good suggestions guys. Yes, I was using only one magazine so perhaps it is the magazine. I will check it and the other magazine to see if it is a problem there as well. Thanks Mark for all the good counsel...wanna' come over and clean the gun and magazines for me? I hate the cleaning part!

[cobb]

The way the lock back works is pretty simple. The follower (the little plastic piece that rides on top of the spring in the magazine) pushes up against the slide stop after the last round. The slide catches on it instead of sliding all the way forward. If you look in the empty gun through the ejection port and slowly slide the magazine into the gun, you'll see where the follower engages the slide stop to push it up. Check that area to see if there's anything out of the ordinary (obvious wear or a chip or nick).

If that looks good, run your other magazine into the gun the same way to see if the two followers are engaging the slide stop at the same location. I can't recall if you have metal followers or not, bt on some of my magazines with metal followers, I've had to slightly adjust the follower by bending it so it fully pushes up on the slide stop.

If there's no difference between mags, I'd pull the slide off the gun and use a tooth brush and some cleaner to scrub the slide lock lever and spring. Could be some carbon build up that makes it bind and not easily slide upwards to engage the cut out on the slide.

Not a bad idea to check the cut out on the slide to make sure it hasn't lost its edge. I suppose it could be itself worn and not grabbing the slide lock tooth.

I'd definitely pull the mags apart and clean them as well. The spring or follower could be hanging up and not springing up to force the slide lock up to grab the slide after the last round. If you haven't had your mags apart before, take one apart at a time. Cover the plastic/metal tab on the end with your hand/thumb while pushing in the little nub with a pen or something. When you slide the base off, watch out so the spring and possibly a little metal tab that some magazines have between the base and spring doesn't fly out and hit you in the eye or across your garage. Slide the spring and follower out of the magazine, watching how the spring engages the bottom of the follower so you can put it back together exactly as you took it apart. You could find a broken spring or broken follower, etc. If you can't remember how to put it together, take the other one apart to see how to put it back together. Clean the inside of the mag body and the spring and wipe them dry. Oil film inside your mag body will just attract dirt/dust and gum them up sooner than later.

You could find that your spring is shot in the magazine. That would surprise me in your gun as you don't have that many rounds through it. It happens though. Sometimes you can get heavier springs through Wolf Springs that will make the follower pop up stronger. Do some research on a taurus forum before you do this.

By the way, I did some research on your gun and the only two magazines I see available anywhere are the factory taurus and the pro-mags. Pro mags aren't what you'd want to use for self defense. Sounds from another topic on this board that they are good enough for range work. The cheapest I saw new taurus factory mags for your gun was about $35.00 while the pro mags were around $14.00.

Have fun.

Edit to add one more thing. Your failures to go into battery are not magazine related. That's likely an entirely different animal. First, clean your chamber and barrel with a brass brush and cleaner. Second, use that old toothbrush to scrub the rest of the innards of the gun along, especially the rails on the slide and frame and the guide rod and spring. I don't recall if your spring and guide rod come apart. If they do, separate and scrub as well. Check the spring for any broken strands (if it's a strand type) or similar failures. Lube the gun per manufacturer's instructions (don't over do it as that just attracts gunk). No lube in the chamber.

Next time at the range, look at the cases of the ammo you put in your mags. I've seen Winchester White Box with some bulges or flaws that can cause them to stick a little when being chambered. Same could happen with the magtech.

One other thing to consider is ammuntion. For example, the bullet sticks out farther on S&B .45 acp ammunition than Remington. No, I don't have a problem, but ammunition with longer OAL might cause a problem, either premature slide lock or failure to do so.

[Fast351]

On the slide not locking open, make sure your thumb isn't resting on the slide release. Mine lays there naturally (on Glocks anyway) and if I don't have my grip specifically set the slide will follow down on the last round occasionally. Not a malfunction, just a shooter error.

Failure to go into battery could be a weak recoil spring. Other things to check is slowly ease the slide forward on an empty chamber and feel for hitches. Sometimes a burr may have found it's way into the rail.

[JoeH]

CMJ685-

Clean and lightly lube the rails. This should be done anyway and may solve your failure to go into battery. I saw this happening at the steel shoot and thought it odd.

As stated here, failure to lock back after the last round could be a mag issue or resting your thumb on the slide release.

[Srigs]

Another issue could be caused by limp wristing that does not give the follower time to push up on the slide lock. Give the gun to someone else to shoot to see if it does it for them. I would be glad to do that for you

[onebohemian]

I did some research and reading last night and see that your model has its share of complaints in both the failure to lock back and failure to go into battery categories. Run some google searches and you'll find more of the same. Not a lot of helpful hints on how to remedy the situations though. Sounds like most are shipping back to factory for warranty service. I wouldn't do that until you've eleimated all of the above attempted fixes first.

I'll clean it for ya if you want.

[cmj685]

Thanks again, guys. I know it is not limpwristing (not that I haven't been guilty of that in the past, but not anymore), but I suppose it is possible I have been resting my finger newly on the slide release button--if it is, don't blame me for that: some ace shooter at Hutchinson pointed out that I needed to move my thumbs up higher on the gun if I ever wanted to shoot like him , so it may be that I am now touching the slide release. I will watch for it and see. Mark, that is helpful to know that some Taurus pistols have been doing that, and I suspect it is either the magazine or this--of course, I can't be the problem! Thanks again!

[JoeH]

so it may be that I am now touching the slide release.

Keep those thumbs up! Trust me, it's way better than that crossed thumbs crush grip.

[1911fan]

nothing can be studied untill the gun is clean and lubed to specs.

Once you get it all scrubbed up, oil it and try it, Making VERY sure to keep your thumb from ghosting the slide lock. Ghosting is when the gun is in recoil, the tip of your thumb just touches the slide lock for that instant when the gun should slide lock, keeping it still and allowing the slide to progress forward enough to keep the slide lock under the slide. This is very common with big hands or skinny hands that end up having more reach on the grip.

In many older speed shoot schools it was common to add an extended slide lock and for the shooter to clamp the strong side thumb down hard on the slide lock, to prevent an inadvertant slide lock THis was particularly common if you shot a chip McCormick wide body frame with a gold cup slide, for some reason this combo loved to pop the slidelock in in the middle of a string. This is the only way that feels comfy for me today and I still do it.

More often than the mag spring getting tired is that the little nerd that snicks up the slide lock is either worn or mishaped, often it can be fixed with a little judicious bending if you have a steel or alloy follower, sometimes the plastic ones on new guns get tore up because the action is still stiff and slamming into a resistant slide lock is more than the plastic can handle.

if you need some help gunsmithing it, let me know

[cmj685]

Thanks all! This was a terrific thread, and I actually learned alot about the way a gun works through your excellent contributions! I actually haven't had a chance to shoot with the gun much since the original thread as I have been in the process of trying to buy a new gun, and shooting a bunch of new guns in the process. (Looks like a Glock 19 unless someone talks me off the ledge. Guess I will just have to get used to "Glock leg" in the future!) I still suspect the magazine, since I was using only one magazine during the time when the gun was misbehaving. As soon as I get a chance, I will look more carefully as I shoot and try to figure it out. And yes, Pete and Mark, I would be glad to have you do some "gunsmithing" for me...if that is what you kids are calling cleaning now . Why do I hate cleaning guns so much?