Ron Paul wins GOP debate last night

[rucker]

Ahh, you Ron Paul doubters probably didn't think Jesse'd win either.

I'm not saying anything about his chances, it's way too early for any of that. Most of what I think I know about him is good. But the most prominent view of his that I latched on to from the debate was to get the troops out of Iraq asap. I just think that's shortsighted and wrong.

Yeah, Ron Paul lost any chance of getting my vote there too. It seems he'd like to see us bring all our military home from everywhere in the world, station them at our borders and "lock us down".

Does he really think that would prevent the Jihadists from still wanting to kill us? He seems to actually think so, from his comment in the debate about the reason we were attacked on 9/11 is because we had troops in Saudi Arabia. Umm, don't think that was the only (or real) reason. Listen to OBL's own words many times since. We can prevent further attacks by converting to Islam. Over my dead (and no doubt beheaded) body.

Disclaimer: I am not saying I agree or disagree with the following

My understanding is that Ron Paul is vehemently opposed to nation building, but not necessarily against responding to threats. I believe it was the first debate where he stated that if we need to go to war then we should (the following is paraphrased) "go to war and win it". If there was credible evidence that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that were a threat to us then he would support going over there and removing that capability. What he doesn't support is having American troops die trying to get a group of people, who have never gotten along, to play nice with each other.

[Aquaholic]

Disclaimer: I am not saying I agree or disagree with the following

My understanding is that Ron Paul is vehemently opposed to nation building, but not necessarily against responding to threats. I believe it was the first debate where he stated that if we need to go to war then we should (the following is paraphrased) "go to war and win it". If there was credible evidence that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that were a threat to us then he would support going over there and removing that capability. What he doesn't support is having American troops die trying to get a group of people, who have never gotten along, to play nice with each other.

I don't agree with "nation buliding" either, but there are times when "nation breaking" may well be necessary. And if we break it, it's in our tradition (and interest) to fix it.

At the time of the war, almost everyone believed Saddam had WMD (not just the Bush admin, the Dems have been well and widely quoted on that belief during and even before Bush was elected, not to mention other countries in the region).

In any event, Saddam was bribing the UN with Oil for Food $$, and would have soon been free of the sanctions which would have allowed to full-out renew his atomic, bio and chemical dreams. If he wasn't a threat then, he certailnly would have become one at a later date, at which time it likely would have been much more difficult to stop him.

There was no choice in my mind. And there isn't now. To leave behind a broken Iraq to become a caliphate for AQ and/or Iran is simply not acceptable, and would have us over there again in some years time. And then we'd hear from the Dems the same thing they said about Bush Sr. as we contemplated Desert Storm: "Bush should have finished it the first time."

[Aquaholic]

Does he really think that would prevent the Jihadists from still wanting to kill us? He seems to actually think so, from his comment in the debate about the reason we were attacked on 9/11 is because we had troops in Saudi Arabia. Umm, don't think that was the only (or real) reason. Listen to OBL's own words many times since. We can prevent further attacks by converting to Islam. Over my dead (and no doubt beheaded) body.

I'm not usually in the habit of quoting myself, but I ran across this from the transcript of OBL's latest video offering:

"There are two solutions to stopping it. One is from our side, and it is to escalate the fighting and killing against you. This is our duty, and our brothers are carrying it out," bin Laden said.

"The second solution is from your side," he said. "I invite you to embrace Islam."

"It will also achieve your desire to stop the war as a consequence, because as soon as the warmongering owners of the major corporations realize that you have lost confidence in your democratic system and have begun to look for an alternative, and this alternative is Islam."

[rucker]

I'm not usually in the habit of quoting myself, but I ran across this from the transcript of OBL's latest video offering:

You have to ask why he picked us though. I mean, if you want to convert people to Islam wouldn't it be easier and more convenient to start with a country like Mexico which is 76.3% Roman Catholic? The difference between the US and Mexico isn't religious, it's in our foreign policies.

I'm not saying that we should, or can, change our policies but I think that is where people like Ron Paul are coming from.

[joelr]

I'm not usually in the habit of quoting myself, but I ran across this from the transcript of OBL's latest video offering:

You have to ask why he picked us though. I mean, if you want to convert people to Islam wouldn't it be easier and more convenient to start with a country like Mexico which is 76.3% Roman Catholic? The difference between the US and Mexico isn't religious, it's in our foreign policies.

I'm not saying that we should, or can, change our policies but I think that is where people like Ron Paul are coming from.

Sure. But, IMHO, and all, that's a bug, not a feature. Realistically, I don't think his candidacy makes much -- if any -- difference, other than to give the second-string Republican candidates a convenient on-stage punching bag at the debates. (I think it's worth noting that McCain and Rudy pretty much ignore the guy, except for occasionally putting on a face that suggests that they smell something unpleasant.)

[rucker]

Sure. But, IMHO, and all, that's a bug, not a feature. Realistically, I don't think his candidacy makes much -- if any -- difference, other than to give the second-string Republican candidates a convenient on-stage punching bag at the debates. (I think it's worth noting that McCain and Rudy pretty much ignore the guy, except for occasionally putting on a face that suggests that they smell something unpleasant.)

If I was Rudy, and was made to look like a fool once already by Ron, I would just ignore him too. I guess it depends on the viewer if Ron Paul is a "punching bag" or not; if nothing else I appreciate that he challenges the other candidates. Remember the reading assignment that was assigned to Rudy? That exposed, to a few people at least, that Rudy was either lying or really hasn't read the 9/11 commission report or doesn't know what the former head of the CIAs bin laden unit has to say on the subject. I don't think Paul will win but I really appreciate that he is shaking up the (using in a derogatory sense) politicians.

[joelr]

Sure. But, IMHO, and all, that's a bug, not a feature. Realistically, I don't think his candidacy makes much -- if any -- difference, other than to give the second-string Republican candidates a convenient on-stage punching bag at the debates. (I think it's worth noting that McCain and Rudy pretty much ignore the guy, except for occasionally putting on a face that suggests that they smell something unpleasant.)

If I was Rudy, and was made to look like a fool once already by Ron, I would just ignore him too. I guess it depends on the viewer if Ron Paul is a "punching bag" or not; if nothing else I appreciate that he challenges the other candidates. Remember the reading assignment that was assigned to Rudy?

Well, yeah, I do; I thought Paul would have further embarrassed himself, if such a thing were possible, by that.

[rucker]

Well, yeah, I do; I thought Paul would have further embarrassed himself, if such a thing were possible, by that.

Well, I guess everyone views these things differently. I suppose that is why we have debates.

[hammAR]

Well, I guess everyone views these things differently. I suppose that is why we have debates.

.........and forums...............

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[nyffman]

Well, I guess everyone views these things differently. I suppose that is why we have debates.

.........and forums...............

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+1 with empahsis on the plural use of forum

[hammAR]

Well, I guess everyone views these things differently. I suppose that is why we have debates.

.........and forums...............

.

+1 with empahsis on the plural use of forum

maybe it should be hyphenated..................
debate for-ums................

[joelr]

Well, I guess everyone views these things differently. I suppose that is why we have debates.

.........and forums...............

.

+1 with empahsis on the plural use of forum

"Let a hundred flowers bloom; let a hundred schools of thought contend."

[hammAR]

We cannot understand life and its mysteries
as long as we try to grasp it.

Indeed, we cannot grasp it,
anymore than we can walk off with a river in a bucket,
for in the bucket the water does not run.

To have running water we must let it go and let it run.

The same is true of life……

Sun-tzu, 548 BC

[joelr]

The essence of Tao is mystery; despite that, through its existence through mystery, is found its image and form. Grasp it tightly, and you will not hold it.

[hammAR]

It is bad to carry even a good thing too far.
Even concerning things such as religion, life, and moral lessons,
talking too much will bring harm. - Yamamoto Tsunetomo

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