Officer shoots man in Kasota parking lot

[ijosef]

Ron Rosenbaum was subbing for the Chris Baker show this morning on KTLK FM (100.3) and he was covering the issue. He had the victim's aunt and uncle on as well as a bunch of other callers wanting to get their 2 cents in. Apparently this Tyler kid that got killed had a long rap sheet, but the deputy also had a DUI and an assault charge on his record as well. They (as in law enforcement) said the investigation will take between 6 and 8 weeks to complete but won't make any other comments.

Who knows? I know that Minnesota Officers have been involved in some pretty questionable shootings in the past and have always been exonerated. Remember the time two Officers chased a mentally disturbed man down an alley and shot him dead? He was unarmed, but they both claimed he went for one of their guns. 911 had been called because the crazed man had thrown a brick through his ex-girlfriend's front window. I don't want to cast dispersions on the Officers involved, but how does one prove that the deceased didn't grab for the gun when the only two living witnesses are partners in LE?

[Stradawhovious]

I don't want to cast dispersions on the Officers involved,

Your post seems to be to the contrary of this statement. The fact is, there were other witnesses according to the radio show you listened to today, and to the article in tht OP. It is important that we wait to see how the investigation is handled, and the information that is disclosed in it before we automatically damn the law inforcement involved. Are they innocent? maybe, maybe not but I can't say or speculate. I haven't heard the whole story. Niether has anyone else.

Lets not jump to conclusions based on the past actions of other people just yet.

[Widge]

It's 'aspersions', not 'dispersions'.


Viz:

as⋅per⋅sion
  /əˈspɜrʒən, -ʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-spur-zhuhn, -shuhn] Show IPA
Use aspersion in a Sentence
–noun
1. a damaging or derogatory remark or criticism; slander: casting aspersions on a campaign rival.
2. the act of slandering; vilification; defamation; calumniation; derogation: Such vehement aspersions cannot be ignored.

versus

dis⋅per⋅sion
  /dɪˈspɜrʒən, -ʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [di-spur-zhuhn, -shuhn] Show IPA
Use dispersion in a Sentence
–noun
1. Also, dispersal. an act, state, or instance of dispersing or of being dispersed.
2. Optics.
a. the variation of the index of refraction of a transparent substance, as glass, with the wavelength of light, with the index of refraction increasing as the wavelength decreases.
b. the separation of white or compound light into its respective colors, as in the formation of a spectrum by a prism.
3. Statistics. the scattering of values of a variable around the mean or median of a distribution.
4. Military. a scattered pattern of hits of bombs dropped under identical conditions or of shots fired from the same gun with the same firing data.
5. Also called disperse system. Physical Chemistry. a system of dispersed particles suspended in a solid, liquid, or gas.
6. (initial capital letter) Diaspora (def. 1).


Despite your statement to the contrary, that is exactly what your post does.

[macphisto]

[Widge]

It was hardly a typo, it was a completely wrong word used in the wrong context. Anyway, I'm only trying to ensure that the next time Josef wants to cast aspersions, he can do so without dispersing them so far apart that they miss the target entirely.

[DeanC]

It was a Bunkerism. Not a typo.

[goalie]

Now a question for Goalie and or the other medical Professional's in our midst, I was always taught that CPR on a pumping chest wound was the one sure way to pump a victim dry. is this not so?

A wound isn't pumping if you're doing CPR. It only pumps if you have a pulse. You don't do chest compressions on someone if you can feel the pulse. If you can't feel a pulse, crushing their chest in and out and breaking a few ribs while doing CPR is going to hurt a lot less than doing nothing.

[goalie]

Now a question for Goalie and or the other medical Professional's in our midst, I was always taught that CPR on a pumping chest wound was the one sure way to pump a victim dry. is this not so?

I'm not Goalie nor am I a Medical professional,
but I always heard that "A sucking chest wound is natures way of telling you to slow down".....
and yes, I believe that you will assist in accelerating the process....

The sucking part is air, the question was about blood. You cover the wounds (front and back) with plastic or something that will seal the chest cavity and hopefully stop the air leak. As you know, in the corps they told you to use the bandage wrapper. Tegaderm or the like is preferred in the hospital setting.

FWIW, the Airway and Breathing comes BEFORE the Circulation in the ABC's of first aid. They are two different items though. If you have blood pumping out of your chest, and a sucking wound (it could be pumping out of the same wound the air is leaking from) you have a pulse, and you are going to address the air leak with first aid and rescue breathing until you don't have a pulse, at which time you start chest compressions/CPR. Hopefully, if in an out of hospital setting, you have someone to help. In that situation, praying is usually the most useful thing a helper can do......

[mattxd]

I'm kind of surprised by the general view. While we jumped up and down mad as hell about the shooting in Anoka last year but from I've seen as that undisputed facts it's very similar.
1 undercover or at least not in uniform (maybe plain clothes this time)
2 completely unmarked cars (saw pic of the SUV by the building)
3 things went south when the civilian didn't know he was in the presence of a "Special Person" and didn't respect the authoritah
other items with similar stories from both sides
4 the cop followed this car for 20 minutes (it looks like you could drive across the county in that much time so if it was that big of a deal he could have called in a marked unit)
5 there was a verbal exchange prior to physical contact. (why wasn't the cops badge prominently in his hand where they could see it rather then on his belt obscured by anything from angle, shirt, or gut)
Now both side are digging for anything on either participant. Both had a DUI and other similar assault citation and the dead guy also had burglary arrests, so what their not saints. My view is that this is the same crap another unidentifiable cop expecting us to know them on sight.
now the unverified but very consistent first person account in the Star, KTLK and Wcco
Frankly this cop is lucky the dead guy eventually saw the a badge, the cop could have easily been beaten to death stabbed or shot since he lost the fight. Then I think it just was such an adrenalin dump that it didn't register with the cop that the dead guy was disengaging from the fight and was no longer a deadly threat. I still don't know if the shooting at the end of the incident is criminal but the way the stop was conducted and the department allowing officers to make traffic stops when they can't easily be identified is at the very lest liable. If the union was at all concerned about officer safety they would pushing for work rules that do allow this type of exposure.

[Squib Joe]

Apparently this Tyler kid that got killed had a long rap sheet

Aid/abet 1st degree burglary in 2004 Gross Misdemeanor

Damage to property in 2005 Gross Misdemeanor

2nd degree assault with dangerous weapon in 2006 Misdemeanor

[CueBall]

we can all assume and theorize all we want to but the bottom line is an unarmed man was killed by an undercover officer with the only witnesses being partial to the deceased, other than maybe the lady giving first aid. even if the shooting was justified its going to be a hard sell to the public and the media.

[ijosef]

touché

I'm really interested in how this one is going to turn out after the investigation is done.

There's one other thing that troubles me whenever officer-involved shootings take place. I get sick of hearing "Why did they have to kill him? Couldn't they have just shot him in the leg/arm/etc?" When I try to explain to people (like my girlfriend) that most officers and trained to shoot center mass, they think it's "horrible" that LEO's don't shoot to wound. I've found it nearly impossible to argue with these types. I just usually say "well, you'd have to understand officer training and the reasons they're trained as they are."

[DeanC]

the cop followed this car for 20 minutes (it looks like you could drive across the county in that much time so if it was that big of a deal he could have called in a marked unit)

Skoogman said on the radio that Waldron did call in a request for a marked unit for backup. Skoogman did not know if it was a radio call or a cell phone call. If it was a radio call, there would be a recording. As we have discussed on this forum, many times cops will use a cell phone so there is no recording or citizens listening in using a scanner.

He also said he was not an undercover officer, but a plainclothes detective; think Joe Friday.

[Paul]

As we have discussed on this forum, many times cops will use a cell phone so there is no recording or citizens listening in using a scanner.

I will disagree on one point. Cops do use phones instead of radios, but it's generally so they can hold a more casual or lengthy conversation... Or to keep confidential/sensitive information private. Nothing about a traffic stop for erratic driving needed to remain confidential. If he did make a phone call, it probably would have been to a dispatch center, which more than likely would still be recorded. Even if the line he called in on was not recorded, the main channel where the assisting unit would have been dispatched would have been recorded.

I believe KARE 11 described it as a "pursuit" that occurred prior to the incident at the apartment complex... It's not worth speculating since we do not have all of the facts, but if it was in fact a pursuit in the generic sense of the word, he more than likely would not have used his phone, as a radio is simpler to use while driving, and he would have wanted to give a real time update to any other units possibly responding.

Another thing to consider is that many unmarked police vehicles, especially in communities and jurisdictions with limited budgets and funding, are usually not fully equipped. It is not uncommon for them to not have a police radio installed in the vehicle. It is very possible that he did not have access to a radio.

Finally, I do not know a thing about Kasota, but many of the more rural areas and jurisdictions have limited police coverage. It is believable that in the time of the pursuit to the confrontation, back up would not have had time to reach him and assist.

My point is that there are many variables in this scenario that we do not know... It is a little early to jump the the "shady cop" undertones. I am not saying it was a justified shooting, I was not there, none of us were, so we have no idea. But I will keep an open mind until all the facts come out.

[DeanC]

I believe KARE 11 described it as a "pursuit"

Some of the witnesses described it not as a pursuit, but something like a following which led the kid to drive through a park or something.

It is very possible that he did not have access to a radio.

Skoogman said he was not aware if the car/SUV was equipped with a radio.