Seismic Sam wrote:If the Blue Dot problem is lot dependent (and it most likely is..) you ABSOLUTELY NEED to find out what lots were flagged with this warning. When you bought it doesn't mean Jack Shyte. I bought some Herco at the Frontiersman earlier this year that was 10 years old.
Speer 14 lists 125 grain bullets with 357 Mag cases at 11.5 to 13.0 grains of Blue Dot, so 12 should be fine, IF you don't have an affected lot of powder. Also, it doesn't list any warning. Nosler #6 doesn't have 125 grain bullet loads, and Hornady #7 doesn't mention Blue Dot at all.
Under no circumstances do you ignore a powder manufacturer's warning, period!! Some of the original lots of Retumbo were off in density, so if you just set your powder measure to a certain volume, those lots could seriously screw you up. (Retumbo is only for calibers that take about 100 grains of powder!!) As a result of that particular incident, I destroyed every powder measure setting for set charge weights that I had been gathering for 30 years.
Your assumption that "maybe" the pressure in the case won't make it up to max in a snubbie is a horrible, horrible, assumption that you have no data to support, and could quite easily get you killed if you actually depended on it. You NEVER assume ANYTHING about handloading variables like this without having some way of testing it, which would require a pressure barrel with a piezoelectric transducer in this case. Oh, and BTW, if you assumption about the pressure is right, then your shot-to-shot variability will be monumentally horseshyte, because there is no way any load that has only achieved partial pressure can be consistent.
And in closing, I have come to the conclusion that I am sick and tired of trying to lecture people about handloading, and had made up my mind to NEVER do it again as a result of my latest flame war with a newbie. While most of the questions that were asked here were specific and the person has handloading experience, the assumption about the pressure not reacing max in a snubbie has once again gotten the better of me. Sorry about that, people, but I really am making a sincere effort to STFU for good, which will make this subforum a kinder and gentler place. I'm old, and I'm tired to death of this shyte, and I just can't put up with it anymore. Maybe ET came to the same conclusion before I did.
This is exactly what I asked. Because there was no warning until AFTER I loaded and shot one batch of ammo (minimal load), I know there must be some limit. It seems to me that if the powder is so far off as to be outright dangerous [it is not as if handloaders .... especially those not Internet connected, would necessarily have received these warnings ... further the warning was for one caliber only]. If it was that dangerous, I think Alliant should have recalled all the powder shipped in the affected batches. They did not do so.
My question was simple ... are there people out there shooting a similar load successfully (perhaps because they didn't know about the warning or didn't know about it until after shooting hundreds of rounds). I have the ability to measure velocity, but I can't measure peak pressure in the chamber, which is what the warning was about.
I have found myself gravitating away from Alliant powders due to the fact that they are hugely dirty (i.e. Bullseye), incompletely burn (Bluedot unless shooting full power loads), Unique (hard to consistently measure without weighing each and every charge). In fact, the only Alliant powder that I do like is 2400 and it appears that Winchester 296 may be a more accurate powder anyway. And then with the "warnings" that aren't even displayed in some places that I visit and are not mentioned online when you buy the powder (I never noticed anything on Cabela's or Midway's website).
I didn't come here asking for or deserving a lecture. I came here asking for experience and listed exactly what I am considering doing. I don't want to hear, "it should be safe, go ahead and try it", I want to hear, "I have been shooting a similar or more powerful load in this particular gun without incident". I think that avoids liability issues for all parties and it is simply a data point for me to decide whether to consider trying it. Like I said, smaller loads did indeed prove successful for me [but I didn't measure the velocity as I didn't have the capability at the time and didn't know I should be checking it for that particular powder considering the warning] and of course I have no idea of the pressure in the chamber [unless Alliant supplies pressure data for that particular batch].
Judging by your lengthy response and this quote, "And in closing, I have come to the conclusion that I am sick and tired of trying to lecture people about handloading, and had made up my mind to NEVER do it again as a result of my latest flame war with a newbie.", I guess I don't believe you
Thanks for your advise, even though I am fully aware of all that you have mentioned. That is why I am asking for actual data. There are bound to be plenty of people out there that did not know about the warning and continued to work up loads based on long time recipes that they have always used and it is this data I am looking for. Anybody care to point out what batch they are/were using would be greatly appreciated. Mine is from Feb 2008, although I don't have the batch number at hand right now ... I am going down stairs to do some loading right now. If read about a lot of affirmatives, then I will work up to that load slowly and carefully, like any other, but if I read that people were having trouble with bulged cases or other pressure signs, then I won't even bother working up the load at all. The fact that they did not recall the affected batches of powder suggests to me that either ATK would find it cheaper to deal with individual cases in court [which means they deserve to leave the business] or that the difference was enough to affect maximum loads published in some historical or current texts and the lawyers want to stay well clear of any problems, but that there really isn't a safety issue for people sticking to published recipes from reputable resources. I didn't ask this without thinking it through.
BTW ... I NEVER load powder by volume and ALWAYS load by weight. So, I log the volume setting for a given load, but then I adjust each and every time I load so that I am loading exactly the amount by weight of powder intended which is exactly why I HATE the Lee disc based system.
You could get a new lease on life -- if only you didn't need the first and last month in advance.