What Chronograph to get

[JJ]

I like the idea of the M2, but I'm having trouble looking past the myriad negative reviews on Midway citing everything from unintuitive user interface to reliability issues.

Same boat here. But then look at the comparable PACT and you end up really confused.

[RAGGED]

I like the idea of the M2, but I'm having trouble looking past the myriad negative reviews on Midway citing everything from unintuitive user interface to reliability issues.

Well I will say there is some truth to the intuitive comments, this device does have MANY features and to really get the most out of it you will have to RTFM. Trying to man up and wing it without doing so will leave you scratching, but its by no means hopeless. As far as quality goes I would say its above par, at least from what I’ve seen. My friend is a chronic chrono user, other than match’s he fires EVERY single round over is CED M1, I bet its seen 20-30K rounds. Even after hundreds of trips to the range it measures almost exactly the same as my newer M2. I also feel the velocities it gives are very close to actual. I will often go from my 100yd zero to 600 yard targets and using Bryan litz’s real world BC’s and chrono data from my M2 I can be just about perfect, twice this year I’ve hit the X ring on a cold bore shot, that just wouldn’t happen with bad data. My older chrono use to give me data that I questioned, the solutions never worked, I was often low indicating it was giving data that was higher that actual. Using the data from my friends M1 I’ve personally seen 3 one shot kills on Prairie dogs @ 1000 yards and over, again, those results don’t happen unless the data you are using is VERY good. Like I said, I’ve met people that have shelved every other model listed here, I’ve yet to meet a competent shooter that has done such with a M2, not saying they are perfect but from my completely antidotal evidence they seem to be the best out there.



Also lets face it guys, there are plenty of "Bubbas" in this hobby, and Bubbas don't often mix with tech, so you may want to keep that in mind when reading the Midway reviews.

[JJ]

So i picked up an M2 and got it to the range today. I have not used the software yet but it worked well and seemd fairly easy to navigate.

I didn't pick up the IR kit for it, and am now regretting it. I shot a known load out of my 223 bolt gun and came up with a very predictable 2765fps and a ES of 27. Typical factory loading, no suprises there. I then fired the same load out of my AR pistol and it was very hard to not error out. I moved the screens out the full reach of the cords and still was not getting consistent readings. When I did get a three shot string, I had an ES of just under 100fps and my average was in the 1900fps area.

So, will an IR kit help give me better readings out of my AR pistol? I assume the problem is the massive muzzle flash?

[RAGGED]

So i picked up an M2 and got it to the range today. I have not used the software yet but it worked well and seemd fairly easy to navigate.

I didn't pick up the IR kit for it, and am now regretting it. I shot a known load out of my 223 bolt gun and came up with a very predictable 2765fps and a ES of 27. Typical factory loading, no suprises there. I then fired the same load out of my AR pistol and it was very hard to not error out. I moved the screens out the full reach of the cords and still was not getting consistent readings. When I did get a three shot string, I had an ES of just under 100fps and my average was in the 1900fps area.

So, will an IR kit help give me better readings out of my AR pistol? I assume the problem is the massive muzzle flash?

Its hard to say, but I can shoot the 338LM with the screens pretty close and have never had issue except when in a cement tube, I would think if it works with that shockwave it would work fine with a 223 but then again if it happens to be something related to the flash it may not, you might just have to move it a little further out, most ballistic software can be set to account for how far it is away from the muzzle. I picked up some 50ft mini plug extensions off Ebay for like $7 shipped, brand new from Hong Kong, gave me the flexibility to move it if needed, had to move it a ways out when I shot in the cement tubes at Forest Lake. Either way get the sky screens when you can, they are great. Also you may get an error here and there, but the data will still be good, it will error if it receives a 2nd hit like a shockwave (you would be surprised what kind of small debris can go flying forward) and I think in some cases the flash and wave itself can register. I get errors frequently for this but the data is still solid. I thought something was wrong with mine because my buddies M1 never errored at all under the same circumstances, called the designer and he said that was because it doesn't have the feature in the software. From talking with the guy I gathered it was more or less a warning to let you know you might not have it in the optimal position, too close to a wall, in my case in a tube, ect…. it’s just a little "hey there heads up you may want to adjust this" type of message.

[JJ]

Its hard to say, but I can shoot the 338LM with the screens pretty close and have never had issue except when in a cement tube, I would think if it works with that shockwave it would work fine with a 223 but then again if it happens to be something related to the flash it may not, you might just have to move it a little further out, most ballistic software can be set to account for how far it is away from the muzzle. I picked up some 50ft mini plug extensions off Ebay for like $7 shipped, brand new from Hong Kong, gave me the flexibility to move it if needed, had to move it a ways out when I shot in the cement tubes at Forest Lake. Either way get the sky screens when you can, they are great. Also you may get an error here and there, but the data will still be good, it will error if it receives a 2nd hit like a shockwave (you would be surprised what kind of small debris can go flying forward) and I think in some cases the flash and wave itself can register. I get errors frequently for this but the data is still solid. I thought something was wrong with mine because my buddies M1 never errored at all under the same circumstances, called the designer and he said that was because it doesn't have the feature in the software. From talking with the guy I gathered it was more or less a warning to let you know you might not have it in the optimal position, too close to a wall, in my case in a tube, ect…. it’s just a little "hey there heads up you may want to adjust this" type of message.

When i was getting an error it wasn't registering data at all. All i was getting was big fat 0000.

[timwarner]

once someone puts a bullet through the whole body, they're all the same anyway.

[engnerdan]

JJ,
I bought the same one a couple weeks back and I too had some errors. I had a couple strings that were showing 5000+fps on a 9mm luger but they were consistant. I gave it a half hour and let the sun move some and it went away. The sun seems to mess with it when it is at the wrong angle. It seemed to pick up more shots the closer I was able to put the shot to the sensor - DONT DO THIS. It will seem like a stupid idea at the time and even stupid-er when you shoot the sensor. If you are lucky you will only slightly wound it. Just go right through the middle like the directions say, I cloudy overcast day is suppost to be optimal.

-Dan

[Seismic Sam]

JJ: Yes, you are regretting not getting the IR screens for a good reason, and what many people (and you're not one of them) don't realize is that you can shoot for hours even with an M1 or M2 with plain screens, and when the sun hits a certain angle the whole system will go bonkers. Same for every other brand out there, and some are a LOT more dependant on light conditions. After having the sun angle screw me up once with my M1, I got the IR screens and have never had a problem since.

As far a muzzle flash, I'm not sure if it's that or the concussion of the blast that can affect the sensors if they are in too close, but the cable length on the CED's is plenty long enough, and if I have the chrono a good ten feet away, I can shoot full power 500 Smith loads or .338 Ultramag loads all day and get good data, so I think the IR screens will solve your problem.

[gyrfalcon]

once someone puts a bullet through the whole body, they're all the same anyway.

I would suggest up armoring your Chronograph with AR-600 steel plate.

[Seismic Sam]

once someone puts a bullet through the whole body, they're all the same anyway.

Actually, not true for the Milleniums, and you already know this, but other people don't if they haven't seen one. All the electronics are back on the shooting bench, and about the worst you can do is shoot one of the sensor bodies, which sets you back about $45. You shoot anything else where all the electronics are out in front of the gun, and yes, they all (don't) work the same...

[engnerdan]

Actually, not true for the Millenniums, and you already know this, but other people don't if they haven't seen one. All the electronics are back on the shooting bench, and about the worst you can do is shoot one of the sensor bodies, which sets you back about $45. You shoot anything else where all the electronics are out in front of the gun, and yes, they all (don't) work the same...

While this saves you a lot of money by only having to by a $50 sensor (price went up) it still does not save you the embarrassment of shooting your brand new (first time out) chronograph in front of your father.

-Dan

[RAGGED]

While this saves you a lot of money by only having to by a $50 sensor (price went up) it still does not save you the embarrassment of shooting your brand new (first time out) chronograph in front of your father.

-Dan

Fail?

[Seismic Sam]

Actually, not true for the Millenniums, and you already know this, but other people don't if they haven't seen one. All the electronics are back on the shooting bench, and about the worst you can do is shoot one of the sensor bodies, which sets you back about $45. You shoot anything else where all the electronics are out in front of the gun, and yes, they all (don't) work the same...

While this saves you a lot of money by only having to by a $50 sensor (price went up) it still does not save you the embarrassment of shooting your brand new (first time out) chronograph in front of your father.

-Dan

Part of setting a chrono up is to place it out in front of the bench, stand EXACTLY where you are going to shoot, and hold your gun on the bull of the target and see where the chrono triangle(s) are in relation to the sights of the guns. The triangles MUST be at the same angle, and the farther one should be centrally located inside the inner one. This will require you to fart around with the tripod setting and elevation at LEAST 5 times. Maybe more for a rookie. Once you get this done, you should be fine, as the Millenium's have about the largest bullet "through zone" of any system out there.

[engnerdan]

While this saves you a lot of money by only having to by a $50 sensor (price went up) it still does not save you the embarrassment of shooting your brand new (first time out) chronograph in front of your father.

-Dan

Fail?

At least I did not ruin it, it is just the top edge of the plastic housing on the rear sensor. It was due to me getting irritated with the bogus readings and trying to find a solution. Which I did not, I walked away and did some other shooting and then came back and it worked fine. It was just the sun, I was shooting way low near the sensors because that was the only way I could get it to pick up the shots when the sun was messing up the readings. A little patience would have helped but in the end nothing was ruined and it did not cost me anything but some embarrassment. It makes for a good story now.

I think I am going to try making some IR screens with some parts laying around here at work. I just need to find some better pictures of the real units so I know how they have them setup.

-Dan

[RAGGED]

I think I am going to try making some IR screens with some parts laying around here at work. I just need to find some better pictures of the real units so I know how they have them setup.

-Dan

Well I have the IR screens if you want to copy them, and I could also REALLY use a few tips on how to use my new little welder (Hobart 187), so If you want to check them out while barking welding tips to me it may be a good arrangement, you could even make them while here, pretty well equipped shop for making little stuff like that, CNC’s would be free to use as well.