Problems with Para Ordnance

[CashFan]

Picked up a Para Ordnance P12-45 a few weeks ago and have a few questions for those familiar with these guns.

The shell cases eject in all directions, including down my shirt and into my forehead. This doesn't seem right (my glock kicks them quite a ways), but I could live with it if the gun is a good shooter.

When I had it out, I had multiple failure to feed the last round, failure to eject, couple of stove pipes, and multiple times the hammer did not reset.

These are problems I would like to work out, as I really like how it feels as well as its accuracy. Perhaps these are things a gunsmith can work out and I could have a nice running firearm. The ammo I am using is Fed American Eagle 230 gr fmj, factory mags(tried with and without Wolff spring replacements).

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!!

[mmcnx2]

First clean it including pulling the extractor. If it was purchased used, replace the springs. Para's are great shooters but like most 1911's they like to be clean and well oiled. The spring things is a must do if it is used becuase so many people underspring them, becuase they are home gunsmiths. I use to do prostaff wotk for Para and I've never had a new one not run, but I always cleaned before I ran a roudn through them.

[sabre]

I had the same problem with my P12-45. New springs / cleaning didn't do it for me. I found a video on YouTube on feed ramp polishing 1911s. After polishing, it has been reliable. The feed ramp was slowing the chambering causing the FTF. I also occasionally had a stovepipe, though I'm not sure they are related.
I'd suggest looking at polishing the feed ramp if the springs don't fix it for you.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

[CashFan]

Thanks for the replies.

I pulled the extractor and it was VERY dirty in there, hopefully that helps.

I had it well oiled with CLP last time I took it out and still had issues. I picked up some Slide Glide from Brain Enos after reading some reviews about it and will lube it up well. I picked up a set of springs from Wolff when I bought it and will install them. Should I replace all the springs? Or just the recoil spring? The guy I bought it from said he just replaced them a couple hundred rounds ago.

[goett047]

When I got my problem the extractor needed to be tuned (wouldn't even make it through a single mag). After the tune up it runs great.

[Snowgun]

Slide glide is great stuff, and I will second the feed ramp polish.

Sounds like you also have problems with the springs and extractor. An extractor can give you all sorts of problems if it is damaged or not tuned right. Also, just because the springs were replaced doesn't mean they were replaced with the correct poundage spring. Wolff sells spring kits that have multiple strength springs that you can try out so that you get the right weight for your ammo. Make sure the extractor is good to go though. It should be honed in the right places, and it should hold a round against the breach face firmly (something you can check by taking the slide off and sliding a round up into it.)

Check this out:
http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm

[CashFan]

Check this out:
http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm

Thanks for the link!

I checked that out. The extractor held the round when I shook it, wobbled around a little but it took quite a bit to get it to actually fall out. i dont think I would be comfortable trying to tune it myself, I would prefer to send it to a smith.

I replaced the recoil spring with the one from the spring kit. It appears to me that it is a 23 lb. spring which is what comes from the factory.

I'm gonna head out to the farm today and shoot it, we'll see how it goes.

[CashFan]

I'm gonna head out to the farm today and shoot it, we'll see how it goes.

Got back from shooting the Para. Still doesn't run well. I thought for a minute it might have been a problem mag, but I kept track of each mag and had multiple problems across the board, including stovepipes, failures to feed and getting hit in the forehead several times while I shot 150 rounds.

Its too bad because I really like the gun. Its fits my hand very well, has an awesome trigger and is extremely accurate. Perhaps I'll stick to my Glock and wheel guns...

Not sure if I should send it to a smith or get my money back. Thoughts?

[Seismic Sam]

Dpends how bad you want the gun. Also, taking it to a smith and THEN trying to get your money back is the wrong order to do it.

As far as tuning the extractor, I think it should be bent "in" more to hold the case rim better, as you are having cases go all over the place including your head, indicating that the case is in all sorts of positions when it hits the ejector. Ergo, the extractor has already let go of it before it hits the ejector. It might also be possible that a loose case bouncing around inside the slide might affect the feeding of the next round.

I would also polish the feed ramp, as this has helped with all my EAA guns tremendously, and the ramp of my 50GI is like a mirror, and functions flawlwssly, so that's the way expert gunsmiths do it. To do this, you need a Dremel tool, with a round felt wheel and also a felt bullet shape. Then get a container of JB bore paste, and rub some of the bore paste into the wheel and the bullet. While polishing, you can put the felt back into the bore paste at lower RPM to pick up some more. The good thing about this is that it's going to take a while (half an hour or more), to polish the feed ramp, so it's not like getting an aluminum oxide stone and screwing the whole job up in 30 seconds flat. Make sure there are no sharp edges on the inner edges of the barrel, and polish those down a bit if there are. Same for the edges of the ramp.

A 23# spring sounds a little stiff for anything but a 10mm or a 45 Super, so you might look at a 20 or 18. If the slide doesn't make it all the way to the back of the frame, that can cause all sorts of fun.

[crbutler]

Some Para's, especially the older ones, had a reputation for not being in spec.

The small guns (commander/officer's size frame) are also much more finicky than the full size.

The extraction issues sound like the extractor isn't tuned, but if a good 1911 gunsmith looked at it, that should not be it.

I have a P14-45 (full sized) that I put a bunch of money into gunsmithing on it, and eventually it became "somewhat" reliable.

After all this, it works until the slide release pin breaks, then I just need to get a new one... Its a safe queen now.

The last time I sent it in, the gunsmith had it with it and checked it out and found out that the holes on the frame were not in the same place side to side. He contacted Para, and while they were willing to sell him a new frame, it would have been another couple hundred bucks. Since I had extensively modified the frame to get it to work (it had been in to the factory a couple of times, and not fixed) they said that there was no warranty.

Having said that I have a couple other paras that eat anything.

As a suggestion, contact Para, see if they can/will fix it. If they can't, then sell the thing.

[CashFan]

As far as tuning the extractor, I think it should be bent "in" more to hold the case rim better, as you are having cases go all over the place including your head, indicating that the case is in all sorts of positions when it hits the ejector. Ergo, the extractor has already let go of it before it hits the ejector. It might also be possible that a loose case bouncing around inside the slide might affect the feeding of the next round.

So I tweaked the extractor like you suggested and took it out and ran a quick 50 thru it. It ran much better!! It kicked most of the cases a away, My earmuff was grazed, otherwise i was not hit at all!!! I had no failures to feed or eject, either.

One problem I had but have not mentioned is that the hammer does not always reset. This morning it was close to once every mag, but the last 50 I shot after moving the extractor it only happened twice. Is this because of the recoil spring?

[MNBlackjack]

Para has an excellent warranty depending on the build date of the firearm. I just sent in a Para with about 10,000 rounds through it and got it back in about 10 days.

[CashFan]

Para has an excellent warranty depending on the build date of the firearm. I just sent in a Para with about 10,000 rounds through it and got it back in about 10 days.

I'll keep that in mind. It was made in 2000, I checked when I got it. I ordered some different recoil springs, and polished the feed ramp, so hopefully that will take care of it. I really don't want to go thru the hassle of shipping it to Para. Also, the guy I bought it from said he would buy it back from me so I have that option as well.

[SGT.E.USMC]

I love the GI expert for a base model... Never held the double stacks, how do they feel in the hand?

[CashFan]

I love the GI expert for a base model... Never held the double stacks, how do they feel in the hand?

The gun feels very comfortable to me. The grip is wide, but curves right so that it doesn't feel that big. Its probably a little but bigger than my grip on my Glock 22, but its more comfortable to shoot. Could feel better than the glock because of the 45 cal vs the 40 sw too.