OGC

[Seismic Sam]

It was a major debacle. We all show up, I was dissapointed there weren't MORE PEOPLE WHO CARE ENOUGH TO SHOW UP, and the meeting started. The overhead projector wouldn't work, It got it going later, but the upshot was that there wasn't anything concrete for us to look at ON PAPER. The original decision to go from 13 voted directors to 5 + the President had already met with enough criticism that it had been rescinded, although curiously, the new number of directors was 12 and not 13, as listed in the 2007 by-laws. Turns out the building and grounds director position (Jerry Marah) has just drifted away somehow, and Jerry stated that after retiring from the position, he still did the work until Stan Durda told him verbally that he wasn't needed anymore! Another member pointed out that as far as assets of the club is concerned, the buildings and LAND are the most valuable things the club owns, so getting rid of B&G really didn't make any sense.

So there we were, with nothing on paper about what changes were being proposed to the by-laws that we could compare to the 2007 edition, and the board members present admitted they didn't have their ducks in a row. WTF?? We wre told that the only extant "Gold" copy was under a director's pillow, and he didn't attend the meeting or bring the copy. Yes, that's what was actually told to us. So this goes around and around, until one member brings up the fact that he had made a movement at the last meeting that had been seconded and passed that the current effort to make changes be TABLED until such time as printed changes shown next to the 2007 manual had been distributed to ALL members. So there we are, the movement from the previous meeting clearly invalidated anything we could have tried to do even if we had gone along with voting on thin air instead of printed paper, and the wrangling continued. There was all sorts of stuff about trying to rush this whole thing through so it can get voted on in the December General Meeting, and with the current issue formally tabled, there was no way in hell that this could happen even if people wanted it to, which they clearly didn't.

The meeting ended on a particularly peculiar note, as THE IT DIRECTOR asked everybody if there was ANY way that this could go forward to get completed by December's meeting, and the answer was ANOTHER resounding NO!!! Now think about this: That might be a valid question coming from the President (absent) or Vice President (absent), but the young IT director who's been around for about two years??

So the frustration continues, there is nothing in writing relating the 2007 manual to proposed changes except under somebody's pillow, and there is a continued desire by some board members to try and go ahead with thin air, and that's in direct contravention of a made, seconded, and passed resolution at the last meeting. Seeing as I have been involved in writing and changing AAMI Medical National Standards and IEC 60601-2-2 International Medical Standards since 1991, I'm sufficiently honked off that I'm contemplating offering my services to chair the updating of the current by-laws with the written process that I am familiar with, because what really needs to happen is that we need to get our horribly vague by-laws better defined before we can really go forward with anything else. I fankly don't care what the changes should be, but I know how to go through the process IN WRITING with written rationales appended to EVERY change and voted upon that will stand up to any audit, and specifically an FDA audit, and leave a permanent paper trail behind for all to see.

[bstrawse]

^^ Agree with Sam. I wish I had been there.

I had asked the Secretary last Sunday for a couple of the current bylaws and the proposed bylaw changes and have not heard back. I also asked the Treasurer on Monday for a copy of certain financial records and have not heard back.

Minnesota law requires a non-profit corporation (as OGC is) to provide such information on demand to any member who asks for it. I'm a bit more than frustrated that there isn't more transparency around any of this.

b

[samginko]

Sorry, I couldn't be there. I will make certain to show up for the annual meeting. Most of the members, I have been talking to opposes the new scheme.


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[rugersol]

I used to care.

I don't know much about any proposed change to the number of directors ... or by-laws ... not surprised.

Last I heard, 3 - 4 board members resigned 'bout this time last year ... lots someone could say 'bout that ... but off the top of my head, I'd guess it ain't only the membership, that ain't happy 'bout what's been goin' on?!

Moreover, losing like-minded board members probly don't help things, much?!

I guess where I got lost was, some big project ... hundreds of thousands of dollars?! ... proposed by one member?! ... approved without the membership?! ... I even heard they took out a mortgage on the property?! ... good thing it was otherwise paid off, years ago?! Never heard of no issue ... either within the club, 'er without ... prompting the necessity of this project?! ... kinda curious how much that one member's gonna clear, on it?!

Not sure how accurate any of that is?! ... purdy sure on the board members that resigned!

... 'til ya get more like-minded board members back, I really don't see the point of who's dotting what i's 'er crossing what t's?!

[XDM45]

man. what a mess. Been there, done that. You should have seen my HOA, and it's still not pretty, but that's another story, and not my point which I'll get to in a minute here....

I've never been to OGC, but like my HOA and many other organizations I've been involved in (and walked away from....) they are a legal disaster waiting to happen - and most people don't even realize it.

I'm not a lawyer and what follows is not legal advice, as such, it is and has been my experience that any one or more of the following is true:

- Quorum hasn't been met or is hard to meet for meetings.
- Nothing really gets accomplished.
- Many legal things go unnoticed, not dealt with, or just outright ignored - such as the proper filing of forms, taxes, registrations, renewals, etc

....and the list goes on.

All of the above is part of my point..... the other part is, people need to be careful how they sign documents anytime they sign them, but especially when they are signing them as a representative of an organization (be it for-profit or not-for-profit, or non-profit).

There IS a legal difference between signing "John Smith" and "John Smith, Secretary of ABC123XYZ Organization" Will the latter give you added protection? I'm not a lawyer, but the former os more dangerous than the latter, but the latter is not lock-tight infallible either. So if anyone here has signed such documents, CYA and consult a good lawyer just in case TSHTF, legally-speaking, and you want to CYA, legally-speaking.

[bstrawse]

Here's a copy of my request for a copy of the current bylaws - which has gone unanswered for eight days. I sent a follow-up note this evening.

If you'd like to request your own copy - send to secretary@oakdalegunclub.org

In your capacity as Secretary of Oakdale Gun Club, I'm requesting a copy of the current bylaws of the club. The copy posted on the website (http://www.oakdalegunclub.org/sites/def ... mplete.pdf) does not appear to be current as several officers (ex: Executive Officer) no longer appear to be current - and several other offices I believe currently exist (ex: Director, Safety and Security), are not referenced.

It's also my understanding that there are changes being proposed to the structure of the board of directors and the goverance of the club - I would like to obtain a copy of those proposed bylaws so that I may review in advance of the upcoming member meetings where these are being discussed.

In addition - I've sent the following request for financial records to the treasurer - treasurer@oakdalegunclub.org - It's been 7 days since I sent over this request and have yet to receive a reply. I sent a follow-up note this evening

Mr. Gacki -

In your capacity as Treasurer of Oakdale Gun Club, a Minnesota non-profit corporation, I am requesting copies of the following financial records under Minnesota Statute 317A.461 Subd 2 & 3:
Copy of the balance sheet showing a summary of the clubs assets and liabilities as of the closing date of the last accounting period and as of closing of the last fiscal year

A statement showing the financial result of all operations and transactions affecting income and surplus during the last full fiscal year - and as of the close of the most recent
accounting period

I believe a copy of the standard corporation accounting records for the last fiscal year and the current year to date would satisfy this request:
Balance Statement
Statement of Cash Flows
Income Statement

Under MN 317A.461 Subd 5 - I am willing to pay a reasonable fee to obtain copies of these records however I would prefer to receive these electronically.

If anyone requests this information and makes any progress, do post it here
Thanks,
b

[bstrawse]

Looks like a January 2012 copy of the by laws is in the October Newsletter that was just published.

[ttousi]

Looks like a January 2012 copy of the by laws is in the October Newsletter that was just published.

There is at least one change that has been made and published as Jan 2012 that was made spring of 2012. Bylaw changes made by the board without membership vote....

[bstrawse]

What was the change?

[Lady T]

Thanks for the updates Sam & Tom (& everyone else!)
I've been working some crazy hours lately and haven't been around much

I brought a friend of mine out to OGC to do some shooting a little over a year ago. We went to the 200 so he could try out some of his rifles. While there, I ran into an older gentleman who, while I was VP (years ago) was very active and always volunteering to help with just about anything. I hadn’t seen him around, so after we caught up on things, I asked him why I hadn’t seen his name around when help was needed or at any of the meetings (which he never missed). He sadly looked at me and said, “This is not the same club I fell in love with. We no longer have a board of directors-we now have a board of politicians”
Now I usually have to work on Weds. nights, so rarely get to make a meeting, but the last couple I’ve been to, I’m reminded of what he said and many times feel he’s right.

LT

[XDM45]

There is at least one change that has been made and published as Jan 2012 that was made spring of 2012. Bylaw changes made by the board without membership vote....

Right there.....case in point of how messed up that is... which leads right into everything I said before. I can't even begin to explain just how wrong that is morally, ethically, and I'm-not-a-lawyer, but probably legally as will. If OGC is a 5013(c), then the board has fiduciary responsibilities which they may or may not be following (since I'm not involved and haven't seen the paperwork, etc, I can only go on what's post here...) to the letter.

In the end, (for me), it's not so much about OGC specifically as it is about ANY organization that appears to be (or more importantly actually IS), ran in such a way; but what does bother me about OGC is that if all of the above posted by everyone here IS true, then that means one gun club, and a pretty big one at that, is at risk of going away eventually. We need MORE places to shoot, not less.

In order to really set an organization back on track, you pretty much the equivalent of a nuclear bomb going off (legally-speaking) with a strong person or group of people who take control and get things running as they should be. This requires many skill sets, the foundation of which is knowing how to run and manage a successful business...... and let's face it, most people are great employees, but they would make lousy business owners. It's a different mindset, but it's one that's needed to make any organization truly function well.

[plblark]

I don't remember where I first heard the pendulum theory but it applies to a lot of things. People, especially in groups, generally over correct.

For years, OGC was run like a club. That is, basic maintenance, minimal investment, etc. Then the pendulum swung to improvements and business and it has been run like a business for several years. I think the pendulum has swung too far to the business side and needs to swing back to the gun club side for awhile.

[ttousi]

What was the change?

B&G director not listed..........it was improperly removed/Changed in the April Board meeting..note in the June newsletter. Position was in effect Jan 2012.

Tinkering with the bylaws

With 62 acres and the number of structures on site it is a position that should not be lost

[ttousi]

from the Nov OGC newsletter regarding the annual meeting

Pre Registration for the Lunch is required and will be limited to the first 200 registrants. Regular members may register online starting Friday, November 2nd by selecting Annual Meeting registration from the OGC website member menu. Members may also register by contacting Duane Wilhelm at 651-439-9201. New members may register for any open seats after November 17th.

Door prizes will be drawn throughout the morning and Lunch will follow the business meeting. A registered member may bring one guest to the lunch for a cost of $15. Please call Duane to register your guest and pre pay by sending a check to OGC, 10386 North 10th Street, Lake Elmo, MN 55042 attention Secretary. We’ll see you at the Annual Meeting ~ OGC Board of Directors.

So I'm new member who doesn't get to eat because someone signs up a guest before I register......WTF .......... It ain't right

If I was a new member I would be pissed and very vocal.....just saying

[hammAR]

If I was a new member I would be pissed and very vocal....

I'm an old member and I am pissed.....

There seems to be lots of speculation and hypnotizing in this thread. As a recent former long term OGC Board Member I will emphatically state the following:

1) There have been 4 board members resign over the course of this last year: Long Range Planning (me), Match Director, Safety & Security, and Youth Program Director. Additionally there were several last year that did not seek re-election for similar reasons.

2) The existing POS system is a Vendor supported and nationally approved –recognized system that was in full compliance and went above and beyond most standards, including security, encryption, logging/tracking users, inventory management, synchronization with financials, and backups. It integrates, IF you know what you are doing, with the financial system as it came from the same Vendor –Intuit Quickbooks Pro.

Additionally, I will state that in my opinion:

3) Most of the Board members that resigned did so because of “dealings” with the President and Executive Committee. There were a number of ethical/moral/legal issues that were being forced on the board, thus onto the membership.

4) Over that past couple of years there were numbers of Members that had their memberships suspended or terminated through Board actions, because they pissed somebody off. Not necessarily through due process, but board process with rules and regulations being interpreted, or even modified, to suit the particular situation.

5) Over the past couple of years there have been Board members unceremoniously removed similar to and including Jerry Marah, and in what a most likely eventuality will happen to Michael M - Legislative Director and Tom T - General Manager. Yes, even though Tom and I have had our differences, we do have a lot in more in common, and I believe that he has become an invaluable asset to OGC.

6) That the Board has knowing and willingly has misappropriated funds for special projects, some directly benefiting friends, in a wasteful and negligent manner. One prime example is the web site, the financial services and POS, blue sky, etc.

7) That the Board willingly and knowingly provided a vehicle through the financial system of OGC for the handling, and potential commingling, of funds with “The Minnesota Gun Club Association”, a pet project of the current President.

8) That the current financial system and POS was implemented to eliminate the risk or opportunity to keep multiple sets of books. This system proved its worth through an IRS audit two years ago.

I could go on, but with the unchallenged, unopposed, hand-picked puppet candidate running for President, well it will be the same circle jerk, goat **** circus, just different day…….

OCG needs new, nonpolitical, no BS management, not more of the same rhetoric …I am seriously considering throwing a wrench into the pre-ordained race and running for President against the “dictatorial” establishment…………that should provide some heart-burn...